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[Music]

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good evening everybody or morning or

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afternoon or whatever it doesn't matter

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we are graveyard tales now if you like

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ghost stories hauntings cryptid

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encounters and the weird history behind

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them then you should join us in the

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graveyard you can find us on any of your

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favorite podcast providers check out our

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website at graveyardpodcast.com

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and follow us on facebook instagram

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and on twitter at g r v i just go search

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graveyard tales that would be easier now

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we hope to see you in the graveyard

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today on the show author and ufo

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[Music]

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this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

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spread

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[Music]

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i'm here with peter robbins

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in ithaca new york i

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made the trek

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up north from new york city to finally

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come to this incredible ah i want to

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almost call it a museum

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i mean the amount of artwork the amount

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of

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this house is

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envious to say the least um i i don't

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think my library will ever reach

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the level that i'm looking at in your

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office right now it's literally

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wall-to-wall floor-to-ceiling

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books well if you had started

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collecting as you should have about

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20 years before you were born you

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wouldn't have had that issue

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oh man i i will get there i will get

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there um well peter i've been here for

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um gosh less than 24 hours

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it's a quick trip but we

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said we would make the most of it and we

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have i'm working on a new book uh that i

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can't talk about just yet

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but

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you will be involved in the development

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process of this book uh you will be

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featured in the book and we had

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amazing conversations yesterday about

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your life outside of the world of ufos

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which

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was almost

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more rewarding and fascinating to me uh

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because i got to know you outside of the

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ufo world which a lot of people

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entrenched in this topic

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we look

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at one another as that's your life

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that's everything you do

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um it drives every decision you make

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it's your identity and a lot of people

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only know me as a ufo researcher as they

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do you but as we got to know each other

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more we realized we had far more in

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common than just these

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things in the sky

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and um

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i got your origin story which we will

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share in the book we won't go into it

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here because it's a

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very fascinating story but

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i guess

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let's just

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talk

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this isn't an interview per se this

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isn't a inquisition question answer

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question answer but um

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what

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in the world of ufos

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what keeps you going and has kept you

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going in both of these interests for

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your whole life i guess about

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30 years ago or so i discovered the work

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of joseph campbell campbell was a

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mythologist

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and

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maybe

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the most popular ultimately in the

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modern western world and he wrote a

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series of remarkably popular books and

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pbs

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working with him created a remarkable

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television series about it

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ancient greek mythology

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he talked about um

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the hero's journey

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and i used the word hero advisedly uh we

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have kind of a cartoon image of that you

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know somebody winning in battle running

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into a house on fire or

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some feet of daring do

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but there's that quiet

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hero

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that lives in all of us potentially

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to do right

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to

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follow

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what we feel is the course we should be

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taking

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to ideally leave this planet a little

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better than we find it and in campbell's

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term to follow your bliss

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for me i guess since i've been

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um you know on and off even in

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adolescence and teenagehood i've had

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tastes of that

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but when i was in my 20s i experienced

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it

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in no uncertain terms

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and

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it's like that interior divining rod

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that we have

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that sensitizes us for

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i think i should go

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where i really want to go

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where i feel i can do the most use where

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i feel the most needed

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the area that i'm most fascinated by

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however that comes together

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and be involved and become

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in the process

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the hero in my own life rather than

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for me it's been an interior journey in

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many ways

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[Music]

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i am and always have been a big reader

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since i was a boy

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originally in part

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books helped me to go to places that i

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never thought i would go to and meet

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people who i never thought i would go to

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in part because um

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i had four wonderful grandparents but my

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father's dad

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barney robbins uh who was a lifelong new

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yorker

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used to walk me around the city parts of

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the city when i was a little boy

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and make history come to life and

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recreate what manhattan was like when he

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was a boy

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which was quite electrifying for me

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by the time i was five or six i actually

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understood two fairly

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sophisticated adult concepts

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one was

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what an imagination is

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and how it can be deployed to make for

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a life that's both more meaningful and

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valuable and enjoyable

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and that history is a living thing

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even the most boring like junior high

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school experience

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of you know some generic history book

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of

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overwhelmingly dead white guys doing

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stuff that i was supposed to memorize

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was never tamped out because i knew

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better

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and

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in a lovely village about 30 miles east

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i came to realize i had the best of two

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worlds

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and i

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in rockville center new york

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i had more than i ever realized at the

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time

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an idyllic

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village community experience to grow up

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in

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with good public schools and a lot of

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interesting friends many of whom i still

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have

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and

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state park a block away from my lift

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and you know my first seven years

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growing up in new york city

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and this was terribly exotic for me and

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then

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less than an hour away 45 minutes on the

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long island railroad i was in midtown

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manhattan

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and i had always

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without even realizing it

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been exposed to the world of culture as

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well as nature

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my father's parents were absolutely

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sensational

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in

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parents have access

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even if you live in a rural area if

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every once in a while you can get to an

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area where there are museums take your

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kids

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for me

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it didn't get any better it was the

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museum of natural history uh the

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metropolitan museum and the museum of

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modern art but new york city like many

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other places is filled with

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ever so many kind of specialty museums

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off the beaten course

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and from the time i can remember i loved

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museums

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i would go to any museum you know the

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museum of mechanical clocks or

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some goofy specialty thing

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i'll check it out i um

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i love that experience and in fact my

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parents used to joke with me that from

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the time

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we had their private house on long

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island

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i was given an area it was on the front

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porch for a while and then in the

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basement where i created my own museum

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exhibits would include interesting rocks

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stamps and coins from foreign places

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one of my greatest acquisitions is

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something that

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my mother was less than pleased by

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her father was delighted by because his

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wife wanted him to get rid of

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two taxidermied squirrels they had in

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their parlor

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who had seen much better times

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and whose little glass eyes disturbed

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some people

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mounted on branches

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i had them

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um

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then the wonderful world of fossils

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opened up to me

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and so it went

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but i was a very precocious kid in the

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arts i was dyslexic terribly

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i didn't

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understand the world of numbers i still

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wrestle with it

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but when the world of reading opened up

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to me you couldn't tear me away from it

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and part of the drive mechanism for

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doing what i do is how does it feel

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i think sometimes we forget

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if we're lucky enough

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to pursue a career path

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by choice rather than like most people

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by necessity and i that was lost on me

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even as a kid

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thinking about where my relatives had

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come from

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and especially my mom's side of the

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family escaping

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that

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because of their hard work

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i had enough means and support

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to have the audacity to think that i

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could be a professional artist

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producing something that nobody needed

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to live in terms of eating and breathing

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but something i found increasingly

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important

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and i

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embraced the art world i was wonderful

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going as a younger person with adults

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but then being turned loose in the world

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and going to the museums and galleries

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by myself

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falling in love with the world of

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architecture just walking around lower

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manhattan as i still do and look up at

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buildings i've looked at 500 times

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on a street that i've walked down a

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thousand times trying to find a detail

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that i missed

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and then being able

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without being corny about it to let the

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world fall away and realize unless a

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plane goes by

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i'm looking at something that's been

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eternally there since 1908.

292
00:11:33,910 --> 00:11:31,120
and then in later life

293
00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:33,920
looking at some

294
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:37,600
standing stones or temple in greece

295
00:11:41,110 --> 00:11:39,040
or

296
00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:41,120
pagoda in nepal

297
00:11:45,750 --> 00:11:43,920
or monument in india

298
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:45,760
or

299
00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:47,040
whatever

300
00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:50,720
and to allow myself to just re-embrace

301
00:11:53,350 --> 00:11:51,600
that

302
00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:53,360
flow of time

303
00:11:57,990 --> 00:11:54,160
i

304
00:12:01,509 --> 00:11:58,000
that we're on the edge or we have the

305
00:12:03,190 --> 00:12:01,519
technology to really travel in time

306
00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:03,200
um i think that's still very much in the

307
00:12:05,829 --> 00:12:04,800
realm of science fiction who knows about

308
00:12:07,990 --> 00:12:05,839
the future

309
00:12:10,629 --> 00:12:08,000
i have tremendous respect for the life

310
00:12:11,829 --> 00:12:10,639
work of edgar cayce who was a psychic

311
00:12:13,829 --> 00:12:11,839
who

312
00:12:16,230 --> 00:12:13,839
made me realize that people call

313
00:12:17,990 --> 00:12:16,240
themselves psychics are not all shams

314
00:12:18,949 --> 00:12:18,000
which i thought was the case i mean

315
00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:18,959
please

316
00:12:22,389 --> 00:12:20,560
you know i'll roll my eyes back in my

317
00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:22,399
head talking a funny voice

318
00:12:25,750 --> 00:12:24,000
and make believe i'm a disembodied five

319
00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:25,760
thousand dollar a year old spirit

320
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:28,000
there's an interesting 40 and slip

321
00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:31,200
5 000 spirit and collect my 5 000

322
00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:33,120
um

323
00:12:36,550 --> 00:12:34,160
and

324
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:36,560
when the world of ufo study opened up to

325
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:39,360
me by necessity because of experience i

326
00:12:48,629 --> 00:12:45,110
i was primed and ready

327
00:12:50,550 --> 00:12:48,639
to jump in because i had already been

328
00:12:52,710 --> 00:12:50,560
informally inquiring about things that

329
00:12:54,949 --> 00:12:52,720
were outside of my realm from the time i

330
00:12:55,670 --> 00:12:54,959
was a kid

331
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:55,680
so

332
00:13:00,069 --> 00:12:58,000
part of why i do what i do

333
00:13:01,430 --> 00:13:00,079
is because it continues to interest me

334
00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:01,440
profoundly

335
00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:02,720
um

336
00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:05,040
it's been many years since i would

337
00:13:09,590 --> 00:13:07,120
describe my involvement with the world

338
00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:09,600
of ufo studies as an obsession

339
00:13:13,829 --> 00:13:12,480
at a certain point

340
00:13:15,269 --> 00:13:13,839
it

341
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:15,279
became

342
00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:17,600
an interest a profound interest

343
00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:19,680
and then at a certain point i found with

344
00:13:23,190 --> 00:13:21,040
some irony

345
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:23,200
that i had been involved deeply enough

346
00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:24,880
for long enough and actually been

347
00:13:28,069 --> 00:13:26,399
contributing enough

348
00:13:29,350 --> 00:13:28,079
that other people

349
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:29,360
thought

350
00:13:34,389 --> 00:13:31,440
that i was somebody in the field

351
00:13:35,910 --> 00:13:34,399
you know how did that happen that i

352
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:35,920
would now be mentioned in the same

353
00:13:38,550 --> 00:13:37,440
breath as somebody who i thought of as

354
00:13:40,550 --> 00:13:38,560
famous

355
00:13:42,550 --> 00:13:40,560
and

356
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:42,560
part of my secret is people don't know

357
00:13:46,150 --> 00:13:44,079
inside i'm just me

358
00:13:49,189 --> 00:13:46,160
i'm just me i don't care how well-known

359
00:13:51,269 --> 00:13:49,199
you think i am or that you're just

360
00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:51,279
learning who i am

361
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:53,040
i don't live with any inflated sense of

362
00:13:58,949 --> 00:13:57,509
and

363
00:14:00,629 --> 00:13:58,959
the things

364
00:14:02,069 --> 00:14:00,639
ufology

365
00:14:02,949 --> 00:14:02,079
which has now become kind of a dirty

366
00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:02,959
word

367
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:04,959
um

368
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:07,680
but continuing to study and teach and

369
00:14:12,710 --> 00:14:11,120
educate and i don't see myself as some

370
00:14:14,629 --> 00:14:12,720
vanguardist

371
00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:14,639
breaking through the knowledge of these

372
00:14:19,110 --> 00:14:17,680
other intelligences and why they're here

373
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:19,120
the myriad of them and wherever they

374
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:21,279
come from and whatever their motivations

375
00:14:23,990 --> 00:14:22,079
or

376
00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:24,000
whether they're in the realm of hard

377
00:14:27,990 --> 00:14:26,320
metal machines of advanced technology or

378
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:28,000
more in the um

379
00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:29,279
jacques valley

380
00:14:32,949 --> 00:14:31,440
john keel school of more

381
00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:32,959
ethereal

382
00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:34,880
creations and apparitions and what have

383
00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:36,000
you

384
00:14:40,389 --> 00:14:38,800
we're dealing with a number of realities

385
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:40,399
and

386
00:14:44,470 --> 00:14:42,720
i remember

387
00:14:45,990 --> 00:14:44,480
the first year

388
00:14:46,949 --> 00:14:46,000
when

389
00:14:48,310 --> 00:14:46,959
i

390
00:14:49,829 --> 00:14:48,320
was obsessed

391
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:49,839
in a very unhealthy way in that i

392
00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:51,680
couldn't stop

393
00:14:56,069 --> 00:14:54,160
and i came to um

394
00:14:57,030 --> 00:14:56,079
kind of a culmination

395
00:14:59,189 --> 00:14:57,040
one

396
00:15:00,870 --> 00:14:59,199
late afternoon walking down east 23rd

397
00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:00,880
street toward the school of visual arts

398
00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:03,120
building between second and third

399
00:15:06,550 --> 00:15:04,880
where i taught the school of continuing

400
00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:06,560
education

401
00:15:10,389 --> 00:15:08,560
and

402
00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:10,399
being a

403
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:12,240
film lover and thinking filmmatically

404
00:15:15,910 --> 00:15:14,639
sometimes my mind literally went into a

405
00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:15,920
split screen

406
00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:18,480
one screen was me walking down east 23rd

407
00:15:21,350 --> 00:15:19,600
street

408
00:15:22,389 --> 00:15:21,360
thinking my thoughts and everything as

409
00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:22,399
it was

410
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:25,680
the other was me at that moment

411
00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:27,839
just running out into east 23rd street

412
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:30,240
allah kevin mccarthy at the end of the

413
00:15:34,389 --> 00:15:32,320
invasion of the body snatchers and

414
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:34,399
stopping cars and screaming they're here

415
00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:37,120
they're here already you're next

416
00:15:41,430 --> 00:15:39,120
i realize this is not good

417
00:15:43,269 --> 00:15:41,440
i needed some assistance

418
00:15:45,509 --> 00:15:43,279
in my case

419
00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:45,519
i felt i needed a therapist

420
00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:46,720
who

421
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:49,040
not only was capable of appreciating

422
00:15:53,509 --> 00:15:51,440
that what i was going through

423
00:15:55,350 --> 00:15:53,519
was not based in some kind of

424
00:15:56,790 --> 00:15:55,360
or mental apparition but that it was

425
00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:56,800
real

426
00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:57,920
and

427
00:16:02,470 --> 00:15:59,600
i found that person

428
00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:02,480
in the form of dr ellsworth hef baker

429
00:16:07,430 --> 00:16:04,560
a brilliant psychotherapist

430
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:07,440
who i knew of for years because baker

431
00:16:11,829 --> 00:16:08,800
had been

432
00:16:13,189 --> 00:16:11,839
for 11 years the first assistant to dr

433
00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:13,199
wilhelm reich

434
00:16:15,269 --> 00:16:14,320
um

435
00:16:17,269 --> 00:16:15,279
who

436
00:16:18,629 --> 00:16:17,279
many people hear that name

437
00:16:21,509 --> 00:16:18,639
and they've heard things and they

438
00:16:24,550 --> 00:16:21,519
immediately uh that crank or you know

439
00:16:26,069 --> 00:16:24,560
that crazy scientist or social thinker

440
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:26,079
uh who thought he could change the

441
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:28,079
weather and that flying saucers were

442
00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:30,000
real and you know

443
00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:33,440
cancer was related to this and

444
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:34,720
um

445
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:36,560
i was lucky enough to be introduced to

446
00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:39,199
his work which you see a lot of here

447
00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:42,000
um well i was still a teenager

448
00:16:47,189 --> 00:16:45,120
and read it for 10 years before this

449
00:16:49,269 --> 00:16:47,199
period of time

450
00:16:51,269 --> 00:16:49,279
and realized that something that was

451
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:51,279
sort of a footnote in my mind up until

452
00:16:56,949 --> 00:16:54,480
then that then became a profound reality

453
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:56,959
was dr wright became very interested in

454
00:17:01,829 --> 00:16:59,680
the world of ufos and their reality

455
00:17:04,470 --> 00:17:01,839
in the last years of his life

456
00:17:06,630 --> 00:17:04,480
and wrote a very important book

457
00:17:09,029 --> 00:17:06,640
called contact with space

458
00:17:09,829 --> 00:17:09,039
which for readers who can locate it good

459
00:17:13,189 --> 00:17:09,839
luck

460
00:17:15,029 --> 00:17:13,199
only 500 copies were ever printed

461
00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:15,039
and they if you can get an original

462
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:17,360
we're talking in the low six

463
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:20,160
low four figures but a good

464
00:17:24,230 --> 00:17:22,240
first generation xerox copy can be had

465
00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:24,240
from the wilhelm reich museum for like

466
00:17:27,909 --> 00:17:26,000
50 bucks or something

467
00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:27,919
for people who want to learn more about

468
00:17:31,029 --> 00:17:28,799
reich

469
00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:31,039
and maybe his connection to ufos i

470
00:17:35,510 --> 00:17:33,760
absolutely advise you to make it the

471
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:35,520
definitely not the first book that you

472
00:17:38,470 --> 00:17:36,960
read of his

473
00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:38,480
because

474
00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:40,799
his work is all about the study of how

475
00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:42,320
energy functions

476
00:17:46,789 --> 00:17:44,080
and so it touches on so many different

477
00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:46,799
areas of the natural world but if you're

478
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:48,400
an outsider just looking at it as

479
00:17:52,150 --> 00:17:50,480
disconnected wait he was interested in

480
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:52,160
human psychology as freud's first

481
00:17:56,470 --> 00:17:54,000
assistant in the 20s then he gets

482
00:17:58,950 --> 00:17:56,480
interested in cancer formation then in

483
00:18:01,990 --> 00:17:58,960
healthy raising healthy children

484
00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:02,000
then in social pathology

485
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:04,320
then in

486
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:07,440
the way that um

487
00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:09,280
storm fronts are created and by

488
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:11,039
extension the way that universes are

489
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:13,440
created and then in the world of life

490
00:18:17,110 --> 00:18:15,520
and space he's a madman

491
00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:17,120
but if you had the time in the

492
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:19,840
inclination read this work in order

493
00:18:23,430 --> 00:18:22,160
more than 35 year span of

494
00:18:24,390 --> 00:18:23,440
more than 20 books that have been

495
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:24,400
published

496
00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:26,640
you see the workings of a great with a

497
00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:29,200
capital g mind

498
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:30,880
a millennial thinker

499
00:18:35,110 --> 00:18:33,440
who was so far beyond

500
00:18:36,950 --> 00:18:35,120
most people in his time

501
00:18:39,510 --> 00:18:36,960
that he was simply labeled a crank

502
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:39,520
because it was too much contemplating if

503
00:18:44,150 --> 00:18:41,520
he was right about any of it then i've

504
00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:44,160
got to reconsider everything i know

505
00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:45,760
because in the last book it basically

506
00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:47,520
opens with him

507
00:18:52,070 --> 00:18:49,600
considering the possibility that is he

508
00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:52,080
part non-human is he

509
00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:54,480
in some way inflected with

510
00:18:58,870 --> 00:18:56,720
genetic material from out there why

511
00:19:01,110 --> 00:18:58,880
because he has

512
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:01,120
been so set apart

513
00:19:05,830 --> 00:19:03,440
and has made such profound discoveries

514
00:19:09,510 --> 00:19:05,840
that many people have appreciated others

515
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:09,520
haven't anyway i'm going on here

516
00:19:14,230 --> 00:19:11,200
is a long reading list i hope some

517
00:19:17,270 --> 00:19:14,240
people will read his work because almost

518
00:19:19,270 --> 00:19:17,280
anyone you speak to who has an opinion

519
00:19:20,870 --> 00:19:19,280
has read something about him but never

520
00:19:22,710 --> 00:19:20,880
anything by him

521
00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:22,720
and

522
00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:24,880
to paraphrase with a wonderful quote of

523
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:26,400
mark twain's that i use in a lot of

524
00:19:29,350 --> 00:19:27,840
unrelated ways

525
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:29,360
the difference between the right word

526
00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:31,280
and the almost right word is the

527
00:19:34,150 --> 00:19:32,640
difference between the lightning and the

528
00:19:36,789 --> 00:19:34,160
lightning bug

529
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:36,799
anyway um i went to therapy with dr

530
00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:38,880
baker who had had two ufo sightings in

531
00:19:42,230 --> 00:19:40,000
his life

532
00:19:43,270 --> 00:19:42,240
one with reich

533
00:19:44,630 --> 00:19:43,280
during

534
00:19:47,510 --> 00:19:44,640
cloud busting

535
00:19:50,310 --> 00:19:47,520
operation weather modification in maine

536
00:19:53,669 --> 00:19:50,320
and the other um

537
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:53,679
over his own home in red bank new jersey

538
00:19:57,510 --> 00:19:55,679
and he took it very seriously and he

539
00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:57,520
helped me to understand

540
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:59,360
that i wasn't crazy neither was my

541
00:20:02,390 --> 00:20:00,480
sister

542
00:20:05,590 --> 00:20:02,400
the world was kind of crazy

543
00:20:07,909 --> 00:20:05,600
and that this was important work and

544
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:07,919
should i decide to continue to devote

545
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:09,200
myself to it

546
00:20:13,750 --> 00:20:11,200
that wasn't a bad thing

547
00:20:15,430 --> 00:20:13,760
and that helped me put things into some

548
00:20:18,149 --> 00:20:15,440
kind of context

549
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:18,159
where i could relax a little continue to

550
00:20:21,750 --> 00:20:20,640
do the work and develop myself in the

551
00:20:23,669 --> 00:20:21,760
field

552
00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:23,679
but at the same time

553
00:20:26,950 --> 00:20:26,080
stay rooted in the world of the visual

554
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:26,960
arts

555
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:28,000
theater

556
00:20:32,789 --> 00:20:29,919
architecture film

557
00:20:36,070 --> 00:20:33,750
nature

558
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:36,080
studies travel which means a great deal

559
00:20:41,190 --> 00:20:37,200
to me

560
00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:41,200
and continue to read

561
00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:43,360
any damn thing that interests me in the

562
00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:45,039
moment and go off on a tangent for the

563
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:49,029
so there's the long answer short

564
00:20:53,590 --> 00:20:52,480
question oh that's no that

565
00:20:56,950 --> 00:20:53,600
is a

566
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:56,960
maze to navigate and i we've all we've

567
00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:59,039
all had iterations of what you

568
00:21:02,390 --> 00:21:00,240
experience

569
00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:02,400
i think when you

570
00:21:07,110 --> 00:21:04,000
start to

571
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:07,120
find something that invigorates you that

572
00:21:10,470 --> 00:21:09,600
piques your curiosity that

573
00:21:12,549 --> 00:21:10,480
uh

574
00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:12,559
ultimately

575
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:14,400
has such profound

576
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:17,120
implication if it's real if it's true

577
00:21:20,310 --> 00:21:18,480
that um

578
00:21:22,470 --> 00:21:20,320
it would change

579
00:21:24,789 --> 00:21:22,480
humanity in so many ways and a lot of us

580
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:24,799
in the ufo field feel that way and

581
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:26,960
that's why we shout it from the rooftops

582
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:29,600
like this is real it's a legitimate

583
00:21:32,549 --> 00:21:30,799
phenomenon

584
00:21:34,870 --> 00:21:32,559
it could be a potential threat it might

585
00:21:36,789 --> 00:21:34,880
not be it's probably a mixture of both

586
00:21:38,230 --> 00:21:36,799
but this is real why is no one paying

587
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:38,240
attention to this

588
00:21:42,830 --> 00:21:40,720
so i think we find ourselves as kind of

589
00:21:46,149 --> 00:21:42,840
these

590
00:21:48,149 --> 00:21:46,159
outcasts who have found one another have

591
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:48,159
created a community whether we like it

592
00:21:54,070 --> 00:21:51,200
or not and whether we uh

593
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:54,080
think it's a healthy community or not

594
00:21:59,029 --> 00:21:56,400
it's a community and

595
00:22:00,149 --> 00:21:59,039
ultimately it's it is a part of our

596
00:22:02,549 --> 00:22:00,159
identity

597
00:22:05,909 --> 00:22:02,559
we deal with this topic on a daily basis

598
00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:05,919
where some people never give

599
00:22:10,710 --> 00:22:08,799
a single thought to it which um

600
00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:10,720
is tough because

601
00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:13,440
it has such profound implication and

602
00:22:18,549 --> 00:22:16,400
we're we seem to be getting closer uh

603
00:22:19,909 --> 00:22:18,559
here in the united states and in other

604
00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:19,919
countries as well

605
00:22:23,830 --> 00:22:21,120
where

606
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:23,840
people are starting to accept it as a

607
00:22:27,990 --> 00:22:25,360
possibility

608
00:22:29,750 --> 00:22:28,000
which i think is huge within your

609
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:29,760
lifetime my lifetime

610
00:22:33,590 --> 00:22:31,760
who knows where we're gonna be that's

611
00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:33,600
right in the next 10 years when it comes

612
00:22:36,390 --> 00:22:35,120
to this topic

613
00:22:37,270 --> 00:22:36,400
i would say

614
00:22:39,590 --> 00:22:37,280
even

615
00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:39,600
five or six years ago

616
00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:41,200
almost none of us in the field would

617
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:44,000
have anticipated the um

618
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:46,480
the change in the climate that we now

619
00:22:49,990 --> 00:22:48,320
experience

620
00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:50,000
last night we looked at some footage

621
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:52,320
that i had captured off of television

622
00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:56,000
in november of 1989 american

623
00:23:00,710 --> 00:22:58,880
broadcast coverage of the then breaking

624
00:23:03,270 --> 00:23:00,720
story of um

625
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:03,280
the vaudenos uh russian

626
00:23:09,270 --> 00:23:06,400
ufo incident uh voronos being a city in

627
00:23:11,990 --> 00:23:09,280
russia about 300 miles south of moscow

628
00:23:15,430 --> 00:23:12,000
and a profoundly

629
00:23:18,789 --> 00:23:15,440
documented landing that occurred in a uh

630
00:23:24,149 --> 00:23:18,799
a city park there and multiply witnessed

631
00:23:26,149 --> 00:23:24,159
but so unusual so uh like a number of

632
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:26,159
cases that have come up in ufological

633
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:27,360
history

634
00:23:32,710 --> 00:23:30,000
that are singular in terms of

635
00:23:35,029 --> 00:23:32,720
the mo or the um

636
00:23:37,110 --> 00:23:35,039
the beings and descriptions of them they

637
00:23:37,909 --> 00:23:37,120
just

638
00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:37,919
even

639
00:23:41,909 --> 00:23:38,640
in

640
00:23:43,110 --> 00:23:41,919
an area of study that's so

641
00:23:47,029 --> 00:23:43,120
fraught

642
00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:47,039
with rifts and um controversy

643
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:48,640
it's rough enough saying well another

644
00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:50,880
case involving these apparitions we call

645
00:23:53,990 --> 00:23:52,880
grays which are very well documented as

646
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:54,000
opposed to

647
00:23:57,750 --> 00:23:56,159
what the is that

648
00:24:00,789 --> 00:23:57,760
you know oh you're 12 feet tall and you

649
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:00,799
have a tiny head and three eyes

650
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:03,360
sure and again being a very different

651
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:04,640
time

652
00:24:10,470 --> 00:24:08,400
the field day that the news readers were

653
00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:10,480
having at first

654
00:24:13,510 --> 00:24:12,000
you know they're just reading a script

655
00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:13,520
but they're very uncomfortable with it

656
00:24:17,350 --> 00:24:15,520
but by the second day

657
00:24:19,830 --> 00:24:17,360
they're not only treating the subject

658
00:24:22,149 --> 00:24:19,840
with a lack of respect which is the most

659
00:24:23,350 --> 00:24:22,159
profound understatement i can think of

660
00:24:24,789 --> 00:24:23,360
they're having a great deal of fun

661
00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:24,799
making fun of it

662
00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:26,559
and any individuals that take it

663
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:28,960
seriously by implication

664
00:24:31,909 --> 00:24:30,480
with what they're saying

665
00:24:33,830 --> 00:24:31,919
with their body language with their

666
00:24:35,269 --> 00:24:33,840
facial expressions with the exchanges

667
00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:35,279
what do you think news man you're out of

668
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:36,640
looking at the sky you know well and

669
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:38,720
then joke there

670
00:24:41,350 --> 00:24:39,600
and

671
00:24:43,269 --> 00:24:41,360
how profoundly things have changed in

672
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:43,279
the way these things are reported

673
00:24:47,350 --> 00:24:45,440
and for me um

674
00:24:48,230 --> 00:24:47,360
as a political animal

675
00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:48,240
and

676
00:24:51,830 --> 00:24:49,840
always looking

677
00:24:52,870 --> 00:24:51,840
in between the lines as well as on the

678
00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:52,880
lines

679
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:56,240
that it's equally

680
00:24:59,750 --> 00:24:58,400
the phenomena is happening on both sides

681
00:25:01,590 --> 00:24:59,760
of the aisle

682
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:01,600
that you have somebody like one of our

683
00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:04,080
state senators christian gillibrand

684
00:25:09,029 --> 00:25:06,240
who seemingly out of nowhere

685
00:25:10,789 --> 00:25:09,039
produces this remarkable remarkable

686
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:10,799
proposal to congress

687
00:25:15,029 --> 00:25:12,720
that i mean this is a smart woman

688
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:15,039
whatever your politics and

689
00:25:19,590 --> 00:25:17,120
she's a democrat

690
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:19,600
but whatever your politics

691
00:25:23,350 --> 00:25:21,840
she is a smart legislator

692
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:23,360
a smart woman

693
00:25:27,669 --> 00:25:24,960
but

694
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:27,679
the wording and the detail and the a

695
00:25:31,350 --> 00:25:29,200
priorities

696
00:25:33,830 --> 00:25:31,360
she and i don't mean this in any fairies

697
00:25:36,789 --> 00:25:33,840
or dark way she consulted with people

698
00:25:39,110 --> 00:25:36,799
who understood this situation a lot more

699
00:25:40,950 --> 00:25:39,120
deeply than she did and produced this

700
00:25:42,789 --> 00:25:40,960
extraordinary document

701
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:42,799
and then ideologically if you could get

702
00:25:45,510 --> 00:25:44,320
any further away

703
00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:45,520
you have

704
00:25:47,669 --> 00:25:46,799
one of the

705
00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:47,679
leading

706
00:25:52,789 --> 00:25:48,640
two

707
00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:52,799
senators from florida marco rubio

708
00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:54,640
with an entirely different battery of

709
00:25:59,590 --> 00:25:57,600
politics and philosophical thinking

710
00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:59,600
who absolutely shouldered shoulder with

711
00:26:04,390 --> 00:26:01,840
her on the necessity that the public

712
00:26:05,590 --> 00:26:04,400
learned more about this situation

713
00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:05,600
reflected

714
00:26:08,070 --> 00:26:06,880
equally

715
00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:08,080
on

716
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:10,080
major media that most of us would

717
00:26:14,149 --> 00:26:12,320
associate with the left or the right

718
00:26:16,789 --> 00:26:14,159
fox news covers it as with as much

719
00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:16,799
seriousness as cnbc does

720
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:19,120
and that ain't a bad thing

721
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:22,320
this is for me one of the healthiest

722
00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:25,200
changes in the history of formal ufo

723
00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:28,480
study 75 years old this year

724
00:26:32,070 --> 00:26:30,240
per se

725
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:32,080
that we have ever seen

726
00:26:41,830 --> 00:26:34,320
and

727
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:41,840
ourselves yeah

728
00:26:44,549 --> 00:26:43,679
yeah and

729
00:26:46,710 --> 00:26:44,559
let's

730
00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:46,720
we'll stay recent for now with what's

731
00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:49,200
going on i do want to rewind a little

732
00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:52,400
bit um with you on some certain

733
00:26:55,830 --> 00:26:54,400
cases and things you've been involved

734
00:26:59,110 --> 00:26:55,840
with but

735
00:27:01,510 --> 00:26:59,120
you mentioned you know the senators and

736
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:01,520
we've been or it's been rumored i should

737
00:27:07,510 --> 00:27:04,400
say it might be confirmed at this point

738
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:07,520
that christopher mellon um who a lot of

739
00:27:11,669 --> 00:27:09,360
our listeners are familiar with at this

740
00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:11,679
point um has held very prominent

741
00:27:17,430 --> 00:27:14,559
positions within government um and

742
00:27:22,149 --> 00:27:17,440
intelligence and whatnot uh

743
00:27:24,230 --> 00:27:22,159
that he was helping the senators draft

744
00:27:27,269 --> 00:27:24,240
the wording for these certain things and

745
00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:27,279
whatnot and that you know this is

746
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:30,000
one topic that seems to be bridging

747
00:27:35,350 --> 00:27:32,640
the aisle here in american politics

748
00:27:37,669 --> 00:27:35,360
which is great we i wish we had more

749
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:37,679
issues that they could agree on yes um

750
00:27:40,950 --> 00:27:38,880
but

751
00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:40,960
melon christopher millen and luis

752
00:27:45,909 --> 00:27:43,039
elizondo are two of the people really

753
00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:45,919
out front they're sort of the and they

754
00:27:50,070 --> 00:27:48,320
might disagree with this the face of

755
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:50,080
ufology right now

756
00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:52,320
they are the face of

757
00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:53,360
one

758
00:28:00,149 --> 00:27:56,799
very specific aspect right for

759
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:00,159
every chris mellon and louis elizondo

760
00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:03,440
who are very analytical who are nuts and

761
00:28:07,750 --> 00:28:05,840
bolts thinkers in this area nothing

762
00:28:09,269 --> 00:28:07,760
ethereal

763
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:09,279
they're not looking at it from a

764
00:28:12,789 --> 00:28:11,440
spiritual point of view or from a

765
00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:12,799
consciousness point of view they're

766
00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:15,760
looking at it in that methodical way

767
00:28:20,630 --> 00:28:18,960
you have a ray hernandez a good man

768
00:28:24,389 --> 00:28:20,640
doing important work in terms of

769
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:24,399
documenting experiencer's experiences

770
00:28:28,230 --> 00:28:26,480
reporting and i think very ethically and

771
00:28:31,110 --> 00:28:28,240
accurately that more and more people

772
00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:31,120
having contact experiences

773
00:28:33,669 --> 00:28:32,320
they are positive they are

774
00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:33,679
transformative

775
00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:37,120
and that there is a goodness and decency

776
00:28:41,269 --> 00:28:38,720
to the intelligences they are

777
00:28:44,870 --> 00:28:41,279
interacting with um

778
00:28:47,269 --> 00:28:44,880
playing devil's advocate for a moment

779
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:47,279
i think in human affairs

780
00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:49,200
even close human affairs

781
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:51,360
and very possibly affairs between human

782
00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:53,440
and non-human there is

783
00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:55,120
always the potential

784
00:29:01,750 --> 00:28:59,840
of a threating of um untruth

785
00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:01,760
of deception

786
00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:03,120
uh

787
00:29:09,669 --> 00:29:06,000
jacques valet wrote about this early on

788
00:29:12,789 --> 00:29:09,679
and um i remember at times

789
00:29:14,710 --> 00:29:12,799
in the years i worked with bud hopkins

790
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:14,720
who is also very pragmatic in his

791
00:29:21,029 --> 00:29:16,720
approach and very western in his

792
00:29:24,870 --> 00:29:22,470
why should we trust them any more than

793
00:29:27,830 --> 00:29:24,880
we trust the united states air force

794
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:27,840
even if they say x they might mean y

795
00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:28,720
and

796
00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:31,039
then we get into the

797
00:29:34,789 --> 00:29:33,760
complexity and the layering of arguments

798
00:29:36,630 --> 00:29:34,799
of

799
00:29:37,510 --> 00:29:36,640
are they good are they bad wrong

800
00:29:40,230 --> 00:29:37,520
question

801
00:29:41,830 --> 00:29:40,240
um as we talked about before they're

802
00:29:43,510 --> 00:29:41,840
doing what they're doing for reasons

803
00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:43,520
that are known to them

804
00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:45,760
they are involved in it as methodically

805
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:47,840
as we are involved in certain scientific

806
00:29:51,350 --> 00:29:49,440
explorations and other types of

807
00:29:53,909 --> 00:29:51,360
explorations

808
00:29:55,510 --> 00:29:53,919
they probably have an end goal that they

809
00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:55,520
are moving toward

810
00:30:01,350 --> 00:29:58,799
the fact that we human beings either

811
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:01,360
regard these events from a distance or

812
00:30:04,710 --> 00:30:03,360
from the experiencer level

813
00:30:06,470 --> 00:30:04,720
as

814
00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:06,480
i didn't like what happened to me or i

815
00:30:11,029 --> 00:30:08,880
liked what happened to me i was scared

816
00:30:13,029 --> 00:30:11,039
or i felt love

817
00:30:16,230 --> 00:30:13,039
is almost immaterial

818
00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:16,240
plus we may be dealing with i think

819
00:30:20,230 --> 00:30:17,200
we are

820
00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:20,240
a myriad of other intelligences some of

821
00:30:23,990 --> 00:30:23,200
them corporeal to one degree or another

822
00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:24,000
and

823
00:30:28,149 --> 00:30:26,080
i think it's almost entertaining

824
00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:28,159
sometimes when i follow

825
00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:29,279
um

826
00:30:34,830 --> 00:30:32,640
the

827
00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:34,840
social networking realm

828
00:30:41,110 --> 00:30:39,200
where the extraterrestrial hypothesis

829
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:41,120
is simply dismissed

830
00:30:44,710 --> 00:30:42,640
you know we're on to more sophisticated

831
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:44,720
thinking here and i think isn't this

832
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:46,720
funny that when i got involved in the

833
00:30:50,789 --> 00:30:48,640
later 70s

834
00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:50,799
that was i mean that's about as far out

835
00:30:54,230 --> 00:30:52,480
as you could get that's really

836
00:30:57,110 --> 00:30:54,240
challenging stuff

837
00:31:00,149 --> 00:30:57,120
and not just to dismiss it but not even

838
00:31:02,830 --> 00:31:00,159
to consider that

839
00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:02,840
although it's become in a way the most

840
00:31:06,310 --> 00:31:04,960
conservative on a certain level of the

841
00:31:10,950 --> 00:31:06,320
unexplainable

842
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:10,960
uh truly anomalous ufo aspects of study

843
00:31:13,509 --> 00:31:11,840
that

844
00:31:16,549 --> 00:31:13,519
in dealing with a myriad of

845
00:31:19,269 --> 00:31:16,559
intelligences of beings of life forms of

846
00:31:21,029 --> 00:31:19,279
whatevers that

847
00:31:22,230 --> 00:31:21,039
instead of dismissing it they don't say

848
00:31:25,110 --> 00:31:22,240
yes

849
00:31:27,750 --> 00:31:25,120
this is one aspect of it

850
00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:27,760
some and as stanton friedman used to say

851
00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:30,840
stump some i stress not all

852
00:31:37,029 --> 00:31:35,360
uh things that are observed as ufos

853
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:37,039
are

854
00:31:41,110 --> 00:31:38,640
essentially machines of advanced

855
00:31:42,470 --> 00:31:41,120
technology under intelligent control

856
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:42,480
coming and going from the earth with

857
00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:45,679
impunity for reasons that we do not know

858
00:31:48,789 --> 00:31:47,039
for sure

859
00:31:49,909 --> 00:31:48,799
end of story and then the other stuff

860
00:31:50,630 --> 00:31:49,919
goes on

861
00:31:53,669 --> 00:31:50,640
i

862
00:31:56,870 --> 00:31:53,679
the

863
00:31:58,830 --> 00:31:56,880
iconic x-files poster

864
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:58,840
and this has in a way nothing to do with

865
00:32:01,990 --> 00:32:00,240
extraterrestriality or

866
00:32:03,269 --> 00:32:02,000
interdimensionality or anything in our

867
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:03,279
field

868
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:05,840
everybody wants to believe something

869
00:32:08,070 --> 00:32:07,200
it doesn't matter whether you've grown

870
00:32:09,190 --> 00:32:08,080
up

871
00:32:10,870 --> 00:32:09,200
in a family of faith and are

872
00:32:11,830 --> 00:32:10,880
theologically inclined or you are the

873
00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:11,840
biggest

874
00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:14,159
agnostic or

875
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:16,240
non-believer in the world

876
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:18,000
we all want to believe certain things

877
00:32:20,950 --> 00:32:19,440
are and we all want to believe certain

878
00:32:24,070 --> 00:32:20,960
things aren't

879
00:32:27,029 --> 00:32:24,080
i think part of that is governed by

880
00:32:29,029 --> 00:32:27,039
what we can tolerate what we can handle

881
00:32:31,350 --> 00:32:29,039
what we can even begin to wrap our heads

882
00:32:36,389 --> 00:32:31,360
around without freaking out

883
00:32:41,029 --> 00:32:38,549
a world view

884
00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:41,039
where we brought up to see the world in

885
00:32:46,630 --> 00:32:43,120
a very narrow stricture

886
00:32:47,830 --> 00:32:46,640
again whether through theological or um

887
00:32:50,549 --> 00:32:47,840
uh

888
00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:50,559
scientific pragmatism

889
00:32:56,070 --> 00:32:53,760
or were we brought up to be

890
00:32:58,389 --> 00:32:56,080
for lack of a better term open-minded

891
00:33:00,149 --> 00:32:58,399
and even if something seems unlikely

892
00:33:01,509 --> 00:33:00,159
unlikely or even

893
00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:01,519
you know almost out of the realm

894
00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:03,360
possibility

895
00:33:07,269 --> 00:33:05,120
if there's a chance

896
00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:07,279
to at least

897
00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:09,200
cursorly

898
00:33:12,789 --> 00:33:10,960
give some fair time to examining that

899
00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:12,799
possibility

900
00:33:17,509 --> 00:33:15,440
i know for me um

901
00:33:19,430 --> 00:33:17,519
as life has gone on

902
00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:19,440
i have gone from somebody who began in

903
00:33:24,389 --> 00:33:22,240
the classic they're obviously from as we

904
00:33:26,389 --> 00:33:24,399
say outer space

905
00:33:27,830 --> 00:33:26,399
they're real beings they're all in

906
00:33:29,669 --> 00:33:27,840
machines

907
00:33:31,350 --> 00:33:29,679
totally advanced we don't know whether

908
00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:31,360
they mean as well or not

909
00:33:34,470 --> 00:33:32,960
and um

910
00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:34,480
we all have to know this and power to

911
00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:35,440
the people and government release

912
00:33:39,190 --> 00:33:37,840
everything you know

913
00:33:40,710 --> 00:33:39,200
work like that

914
00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:40,720
and

915
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:43,200
as time has passed

916
00:33:48,149 --> 00:33:44,480
i guess one of the things that's

917
00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:48,159
happened to me is the more i've learned

918
00:33:52,549 --> 00:33:49,200
the more

919
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:52,559
i'm glad i'm put together in a way

920
00:33:59,509 --> 00:33:54,799
that i can have allowed myself to

921
00:34:03,909 --> 00:34:01,830
the less

922
00:34:07,029 --> 00:34:03,919
difficult it is

923
00:34:08,950 --> 00:34:07,039
to push away the idea that

924
00:34:10,950 --> 00:34:08,960
i now know

925
00:34:13,349 --> 00:34:10,960
how little i really know

926
00:34:15,430 --> 00:34:13,359
i know more than most people i've made a

927
00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:15,440
point of studying it for decades i've

928
00:34:18,829 --> 00:34:17,280
interacted with hundreds of people to

929
00:34:20,950 --> 00:34:18,839
have alleged to have

930
00:34:23,750 --> 00:34:20,960
experiences i've traveled the world

931
00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:23,760
occasionally to seek out new stories

932
00:34:28,389 --> 00:34:26,639
i'm lucky to be blessed with wonderfully

933
00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:28,399
well-educated and their areas of

934
00:34:33,669 --> 00:34:31,280
expertise colleagues

935
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:33,679
i have networked with people who have

936
00:34:36,310 --> 00:34:35,440
interested in the subject around the

937
00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:36,320
world

938
00:34:40,069 --> 00:34:38,960
i've examined alleged evidences of all

939
00:34:42,470 --> 00:34:40,079
kind

940
00:34:43,829 --> 00:34:42,480
and what can i tell you for an absolute

941
00:34:47,109 --> 00:34:43,839
fact

942
00:34:49,270 --> 00:34:47,119
and being that i honest

943
00:34:51,510 --> 00:34:49,280
i'm not a religious person but i do have

944
00:34:54,550 --> 00:34:51,520
a strong spiritual aspect

945
00:34:56,389 --> 00:34:54,560
but i i have a streak of um

946
00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:56,399
hyper objectivity

947
00:35:01,670 --> 00:34:58,480
that one could say

948
00:35:02,190 --> 00:35:01,680
does not allow me to vibrate on a higher

949
00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:02,200
frequency

950
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:04,720
[Laughter]

951
00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:07,119
that's the way i am and hopefully as i

952
00:35:10,630 --> 00:35:08,880
continue to evolve

953
00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:10,640
i will resonate on a higher frequency

954
00:35:14,790 --> 00:35:12,000
but for now

955
00:35:16,870 --> 00:35:14,800
my um standard is can i bring this into

956
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:16,880
a court of law and prove it which

957
00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:19,440
immediately excludes an awful lot

958
00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:21,280
of what people say especially in the

959
00:35:25,349 --> 00:35:23,359
world of ufo and consciousness

960
00:35:27,190 --> 00:35:25,359
which i take very seriously and have

961
00:35:29,109 --> 00:35:27,200
fascination and respect for the work of

962
00:35:31,109 --> 00:35:29,119
colleagues but it has never been my

963
00:35:34,150 --> 00:35:31,119
primary area of study

964
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:34,160
um i've also i accept absolutely that

965
00:35:38,230 --> 00:35:35,920
people who began

966
00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:38,240
in a very defensive posture

967
00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:39,920
they are the unknown the unknown is

968
00:35:44,390 --> 00:35:42,000
dangerous therefore that's how i wire it

969
00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:44,400
up to

970
00:35:47,589 --> 00:35:46,000
welcome you know

971
00:35:49,430 --> 00:35:47,599
you can't do any worse for us than we've

972
00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:49,440
done for ourselves

973
00:35:55,430 --> 00:35:50,960
and

974
00:35:57,510 --> 00:35:55,440
i'm open to the possibility that you

975
00:35:58,870 --> 00:35:57,520
may want to be of assistance here

976
00:36:01,510 --> 00:35:58,880
or at least

977
00:36:04,069 --> 00:36:01,520
that you are not here

978
00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:04,079
to hurt me

979
00:36:07,670 --> 00:36:05,440
we look at the current state of the

980
00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:07,680
world and it is a mess

981
00:36:11,349 --> 00:36:09,359
and that's putting it mildly as we all

982
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:11,359
know

983
00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:13,520
politically at this moment

984
00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:15,520
i can just use the one word of ukraine

985
00:36:19,430 --> 00:36:17,520
and say no more and go on

986
00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:19,440
but when i say that

987
00:36:23,750 --> 00:36:21,760
i am reminded that

988
00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:23,760
in doing so i

989
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:25,359
focus on an area that we're all

990
00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:27,040
concerned about

991
00:36:30,069 --> 00:36:27,920
and

992
00:36:31,270 --> 00:36:30,079
by nature of not mentioning them i'm

993
00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:31,280
excluding

994
00:36:35,990 --> 00:36:33,920
a dozen other areas of the world

995
00:36:37,510 --> 00:36:36,000
eritrea yemen

996
00:36:39,670 --> 00:36:37,520
um

997
00:36:42,310 --> 00:36:39,680
poor afghanistan

998
00:36:43,990 --> 00:36:42,320
bangladesh where people are hanging on

999
00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:44,000
and hundreds of thousands of children

1000
00:36:49,349 --> 00:36:46,560
may starve to death in the next months

1001
00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:51,589
for people who don't think that we are

1002
00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:54,880
responsible for climate change

1003
00:36:59,270 --> 00:36:56,640
and i don't think we're responsible for

1004
00:37:02,069 --> 00:36:59,280
it but i think we have contributed to it

1005
00:37:03,829 --> 00:37:02,079
in a very extensive way over the last

1006
00:37:05,829 --> 00:37:03,839
several hundred years

1007
00:37:08,069 --> 00:37:05,839
part of it is not just the toxification

1008
00:37:09,349 --> 00:37:08,079
of earth through fossil fuel technology

1009
00:37:11,829 --> 00:37:09,359
and the like

1010
00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:13,510
one area of

1011
00:37:15,430 --> 00:37:14,400
study

1012
00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:15,440
that

1013
00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:17,200
if you start to articulate it people

1014
00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:18,880
will accuse you sometimes

1015
00:37:22,870 --> 00:37:21,119
being some kind of nazi and that has to

1016
00:37:25,190 --> 00:37:22,880
do with what when i was a kid we used to

1017
00:37:28,390 --> 00:37:25,200
call family planning

1018
00:37:31,109 --> 00:37:28,400
and now is population control

1019
00:37:32,870 --> 00:37:31,119
when i was a kid i remember that it was

1020
00:37:35,270 --> 00:37:32,880
a big news item

1021
00:37:36,870 --> 00:37:35,280
the earth has reached almost a billion

1022
00:37:38,310 --> 00:37:36,880
people populations ever happened before

1023
00:37:39,670 --> 00:37:38,320
in the history of the world gosh that's

1024
00:37:42,150 --> 00:37:39,680
a lot of people

1025
00:37:43,750 --> 00:37:42,160
is the earth equipped to feed that many

1026
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:43,760
we're more than eight million now and

1027
00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:45,359
i'm still alive

1028
00:37:48,790 --> 00:37:46,960
this is insane

1029
00:37:51,589 --> 00:37:48,800
and a lot of it has to do with the

1030
00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:51,599
helplessness of ignorant

1031
00:37:54,790 --> 00:37:52,880
poverty

1032
00:37:57,270 --> 00:37:54,800
desperation of

1033
00:37:59,109 --> 00:37:57,280
the only thing i have

1034
00:38:00,630 --> 00:37:59,119
to help me maybe make it a little bit

1035
00:38:03,270 --> 00:38:00,640
longer into life

1036
00:38:05,109 --> 00:38:03,280
is to breed and have as many kids as i

1037
00:38:06,230 --> 00:38:05,119
can and hopefully the ones that don't

1038
00:38:08,069 --> 00:38:06,240
die off

1039
00:38:09,349 --> 00:38:08,079
will help take care of me when i'm an

1040
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:09,359
old person

1041
00:38:13,109 --> 00:38:11,680
that's a tragic point of view but it's

1042
00:38:15,510 --> 00:38:13,119
one that a lot of the world without

1043
00:38:18,150 --> 00:38:15,520
saying as much subscribes to

1044
00:38:22,870 --> 00:38:18,160
and then there is the um kind of

1045
00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:22,880
theological imperative whereby um

1046
00:38:27,670 --> 00:38:24,560
biology

1047
00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:27,680
is mystified or mechanized

1048
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:29,440
that

1049
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:35,440
when a sperm connects with an ovum

1050
00:38:39,589 --> 00:38:37,440
and produces

1051
00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:39,599
this

1052
00:38:43,589 --> 00:38:40,960
tiny

1053
00:38:45,430 --> 00:38:43,599
thing that is starting to grow

1054
00:38:46,550 --> 00:38:45,440
no bigger than a head of a pin for some

1055
00:38:48,310 --> 00:38:46,560
people

1056
00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:48,320
that entity

1057
00:38:52,550 --> 00:38:49,920
has every right

1058
00:38:54,390 --> 00:38:52,560
and a protection and respect of a

1059
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:54,400
full-grown human being

1060
00:38:59,349 --> 00:38:56,480
why in part because um

1061
00:39:02,069 --> 00:38:59,359
you know of the miracle of creation

1062
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:02,079
that you know god is there

1063
00:39:07,589 --> 00:39:04,960
and i will defend that

1064
00:39:10,710 --> 00:39:07,599
pre-zygot's

1065
00:39:12,630 --> 00:39:10,720
ability to mature into a personhood

1066
00:39:13,829 --> 00:39:12,640
with everything that i have i get it and

1067
00:39:17,109 --> 00:39:13,839
i have to respect it on a certain

1068
00:39:21,670 --> 00:39:17,119
philosophical level at the same time

1069
00:39:23,829 --> 00:39:21,680
when that entity is 12 hours old

1070
00:39:26,390 --> 00:39:23,839
the thought of putting its rights ahead

1071
00:39:27,430 --> 00:39:26,400
of the rights of his the mother

1072
00:39:29,510 --> 00:39:27,440
is

1073
00:39:30,550 --> 00:39:29,520
absolutely unconscionable

1074
00:39:35,190 --> 00:39:30,560
that

1075
00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:35,200
again i'm off on tangent here but the

1076
00:39:38,390 --> 00:39:36,800
for me

1077
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:38,400
no man really has the right to tell a

1078
00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:40,640
woman what she should do with her body

1079
00:39:44,870 --> 00:39:43,839
and that's that except when we get into

1080
00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:44,880
late term

1081
00:39:49,829 --> 00:39:47,520
uh development of fetuses

1082
00:39:51,750 --> 00:39:49,839
far more difficult era area and one

1083
00:39:53,430 --> 00:39:51,760
where yes

1084
00:39:55,190 --> 00:39:53,440
one can argue murder

1085
00:39:56,470 --> 00:39:55,200
um

1086
00:40:01,349 --> 00:39:56,480
but

1087
00:40:02,710 --> 00:40:01,359
that blanket mystification of creation

1088
00:40:05,430 --> 00:40:02,720
is not

1089
00:40:07,430 --> 00:40:05,440
appropriate in my philosophy

1090
00:40:09,510 --> 00:40:07,440
um

1091
00:40:11,750 --> 00:40:09,520
and the subjugation of women for

1092
00:40:13,270 --> 00:40:11,760
starters and how you know treated by

1093
00:40:15,349 --> 00:40:13,280
chattel and the whole biblical

1094
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:15,359
interpretation you're really extension

1095
00:40:18,150 --> 00:40:16,560
of property

1096
00:40:21,589 --> 00:40:18,160
and

1097
00:40:23,430 --> 00:40:21,599
this doesn't work for me um

1098
00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:23,440
again we're off on an extreme tangent

1099
00:40:25,910 --> 00:40:24,480
here

1100
00:40:28,309 --> 00:40:25,920
but

1101
00:40:29,510 --> 00:40:28,319
part of the problem with why we are

1102
00:40:32,630 --> 00:40:29,520
where we are

1103
00:40:38,710 --> 00:40:33,670
it

1104
00:40:41,829 --> 00:40:38,720
we're all out for what we can get

1105
00:40:44,630 --> 00:40:41,839
in a so-called communist society

1106
00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:44,640
we are all devoted to the collective the

1107
00:40:48,150 --> 00:40:46,800
individual doesn't matter

1108
00:40:51,030 --> 00:40:48,160
neither one

1109
00:40:54,069 --> 00:40:51,040
really is a good model fully to work

1110
00:40:55,990 --> 00:40:54,079
forward on for me

1111
00:40:58,069 --> 00:40:56,000
there are forms of capitalism that are

1112
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:58,079
much more enlightened and they have to

1113
00:41:01,750 --> 00:41:00,480
do with responsibility

1114
00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:01,760
and

1115
00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:03,599
what used to be called no bless oblige

1116
00:41:08,630 --> 00:41:07,040
if you are a successful person you

1117
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:08,640
even if you did it in the old fashioned

1118
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:10,160
american way by yourself you really

1119
00:41:14,390 --> 00:41:11,920
didn't do it by yourself

1120
00:41:17,910 --> 00:41:14,400
you were on public roads

1121
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:17,920
having certain advantages here and there

1122
00:41:21,030 --> 00:41:20,160
we're all connected on a certain level

1123
00:41:23,349 --> 00:41:21,040
and

1124
00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:23,359
that if you reach a certain point

1125
00:41:27,030 --> 00:41:24,880
and in our

1126
00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:27,040
ultra uber capitalism

1127
00:41:32,710 --> 00:41:29,920
we have kind of mystified these

1128
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:32,720
creatures we call billionaires who for

1129
00:41:37,349 --> 00:41:35,040
some people are seen as ultimate winners

1130
00:41:39,589 --> 00:41:37,359
you know wow it's like some cosmic

1131
00:41:41,829 --> 00:41:39,599
sporting event you are a billionaire no

1132
00:41:43,670 --> 00:41:41,839
you're a multi-billionaire some of whom

1133
00:41:46,309 --> 00:41:43,680
are very happy to

1134
00:41:47,349 --> 00:41:46,319
you know guard what they got and even if

1135
00:41:48,470 --> 00:41:47,359
they can't take it with you they're

1136
00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:48,480
going to hold on to it for as long as

1137
00:41:51,670 --> 00:41:50,000
they can others

1138
00:41:53,030 --> 00:41:51,680
who feel

1139
00:41:54,950 --> 00:41:53,040
an obligation

1140
00:41:56,230 --> 00:41:54,960
or a desire

1141
00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:56,240
to give back

1142
00:42:02,630 --> 00:41:59,520
and to say to society that buys their

1143
00:42:04,230 --> 00:42:02,640
products or subscribe to their services

1144
00:42:06,390 --> 00:42:04,240
or just set up a climate where they

1145
00:42:08,069 --> 00:42:06,400
could do the hard work to create this

1146
00:42:09,270 --> 00:42:08,079
extraordinary life and power for

1147
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:09,280
themselves

1148
00:42:12,790 --> 00:42:10,800
that

1149
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:12,800
they're now disconnected from it as

1150
00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:14,400
opposed to

1151
00:42:17,270 --> 00:42:15,200
um

1152
00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:17,280
i read a piece this morning on elon musk

1153
00:42:21,829 --> 00:42:19,200
you know controversial figure

1154
00:42:23,030 --> 00:42:21,839
brilliant man great industrialist

1155
00:42:23,990 --> 00:42:23,040
futurist

1156
00:42:25,670 --> 00:42:24,000
um

1157
00:42:27,750 --> 00:42:25,680
who's a total character

1158
00:42:31,750 --> 00:42:27,760
but who right now is devoting

1159
00:42:34,470 --> 00:42:31,760
certain time and certainly money to um

1160
00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:34,480
doing what he can and his people can

1161
00:42:39,670 --> 00:42:36,560
to

1162
00:42:44,069 --> 00:42:41,030
screw things up for the russians on a

1163
00:42:45,270 --> 00:42:44,079
certain level in terms of communication

1164
00:42:50,230 --> 00:42:45,280
and

1165
00:42:52,230 --> 00:42:50,240
um

1166
00:42:54,950 --> 00:42:52,240
and has like a lot of these billionaires

1167
00:42:57,430 --> 00:42:54,960
given money to certain things that they

1168
00:43:00,790 --> 00:42:57,440
believe in whether we do or not

1169
00:43:04,870 --> 00:43:02,790
i hear people sometimes say well you

1170
00:43:06,230 --> 00:43:04,880
know that's his right but don't tell me

1171
00:43:08,470 --> 00:43:06,240
i should do that

1172
00:43:10,630 --> 00:43:08,480
i'm not telling you that i think some of

1173
00:43:12,470 --> 00:43:10,640
it has to do with what some of us call

1174
00:43:13,990 --> 00:43:12,480
consciousness

1175
00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:14,000
or conscience

1176
00:43:18,309 --> 00:43:15,760
and for others

1177
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:18,319
it's we were brought up in a way like i

1178
00:43:22,069 --> 00:43:20,640
was to be of service in the community as

1179
00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:22,079
well as to yourself and to the people

1180
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:23,920
you love and care for

1181
00:43:30,630 --> 00:43:26,640
they're not conflicting you can do some

1182
00:43:35,430 --> 00:43:33,190
some area of non-profit or

1183
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:35,440
as some people i know

1184
00:43:39,510 --> 00:43:37,520
regularly show up at homeless shelters

1185
00:43:41,510 --> 00:43:39,520
and help feed people

1186
00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:41,520
or be involved in collecting for

1187
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:43,440
something or money raising for something

1188
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:45,520
else as well as conduct all of your own

1189
00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:46,560
affairs

1190
00:43:49,829 --> 00:43:48,880
um with my parents

1191
00:43:51,990 --> 00:43:49,839
um

1192
00:43:53,910 --> 00:43:52,000
and they were very clear about this it

1193
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:53,920
was um it's not that we both don't

1194
00:43:58,390 --> 00:43:55,280
believe this

1195
00:44:00,550 --> 00:43:58,400
it's just that um my mom was the

1196
00:44:02,950 --> 00:44:00,560
activist in these things

1197
00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:02,960
and my dad even for the period of time

1198
00:44:07,109 --> 00:44:05,040
that my mom had her own career

1199
00:44:09,990 --> 00:44:07,119
was the primary earner

1200
00:44:11,750 --> 00:44:10,000
who was working hard to pay our bills

1201
00:44:12,790 --> 00:44:11,760
and cover our expenses so that me and my

1202
00:44:14,230 --> 00:44:12,800
sisters

1203
00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:14,240
could

1204
00:44:17,270 --> 00:44:15,760
follow our dreams

1205
00:44:18,630 --> 00:44:17,280
and that

1206
00:44:21,190 --> 00:44:18,640
my parents could have a good life in

1207
00:44:23,430 --> 00:44:21,200
later life and worked hard doing it

1208
00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:23,440
however it works out fine

1209
00:44:26,230 --> 00:44:24,720
but

1210
00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:26,240
being

1211
00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:27,359
a player

1212
00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:29,200
a participant

1213
00:44:42,790 --> 00:44:30,240
a

1214
00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:42,800
or people like us who do the work to try

1215
00:44:48,069 --> 00:44:45,280
to learn more for ourselves and for

1216
00:44:51,190 --> 00:44:48,079
others and in the course of doing so

1217
00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:51,200
educate the wider world community

1218
00:44:54,069 --> 00:44:53,119
at least to the degree

1219
00:44:56,950 --> 00:44:54,079
that

1220
00:44:59,750 --> 00:44:56,960
the walls of ridicule

1221
00:45:01,430 --> 00:44:59,760
continue to drop as they have remarkably

1222
00:45:03,030 --> 00:45:01,440
in the last few years

1223
00:45:04,309 --> 00:45:03,040
and that this is important you should

1224
00:45:06,230 --> 00:45:04,319
know about it and these are the reasons

1225
00:45:07,030 --> 00:45:06,240
why i feel you should

1226
00:45:09,510 --> 00:45:07,040
yeah

1227
00:45:10,470 --> 00:45:09,520
and you know we had some pretty

1228
00:45:13,829 --> 00:45:10,480
uh

1229
00:45:17,190 --> 00:45:13,839
existential conversations last night

1230
00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:17,200
of kind of you know the meaning of life

1231
00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:18,960
and what happens

1232
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:22,079
when you die and we won't go into that

1233
00:45:24,790 --> 00:45:23,760
for this conversation we'll save it for

1234
00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:24,800
the book

1235
00:45:29,910 --> 00:45:27,520
hinting tease tease to everyone uh but

1236
00:45:31,270 --> 00:45:29,920
this idea of leaving the world a little

1237
00:45:34,069 --> 00:45:31,280
bit better than

1238
00:45:35,829 --> 00:45:34,079
it was when you were there i think the

1239
00:45:38,550 --> 00:45:35,839
same could be said for

1240
00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:38,560
ufology i'm sure the topic

1241
00:45:43,589 --> 00:45:41,920
if you want to call it a field of study

1242
00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:43,599
um which it is

1243
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:46,400
has changed a lot within your

1244
00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:48,720
your experience with it it has within

1245
00:45:52,230 --> 00:45:50,000
mine and i

1246
00:45:53,829 --> 00:45:52,240
have i haven't been in it that long but

1247
00:45:56,309 --> 00:45:53,839
long enough to see

1248
00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:56,319
an evolution of of

1249
00:46:01,750 --> 00:45:59,280
what's being asked what it could be

1250
00:46:04,950 --> 00:46:01,760
how widely accepted it is and i think

1251
00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:04,960
you're right as researchers and this

1252
00:46:08,630 --> 00:46:06,240
goes from

1253
00:46:09,670 --> 00:46:08,640
you know someone like a stanton friedman

1254
00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:09,680
to a

1255
00:46:14,710 --> 00:46:12,079
linda molton howe to you to me to

1256
00:46:17,349 --> 00:46:14,720
someone younger than me let's say uh

1257
00:46:18,550 --> 00:46:17,359
christina gomez a new up-and-comer in

1258
00:46:20,550 --> 00:46:18,560
the field

1259
00:46:22,870 --> 00:46:20,560
everyone

1260
00:46:25,109 --> 00:46:22,880
should feel a sense of

1261
00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:25,119
i'm learning along the way

1262
00:46:28,390 --> 00:46:27,520
and i want to teach someone else what i

1263
00:46:30,390 --> 00:46:28,400
learned

1264
00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:30,400
and watch them build off of it and i

1265
00:46:34,150 --> 00:46:32,160
think that's the responsible thing to do

1266
00:46:36,470 --> 00:46:34,160
is left leave the field a little bit

1267
00:46:38,230 --> 00:46:36,480
better than it was before so my big

1268
00:46:40,150 --> 00:46:38,240
question for you is

1269
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:40,160
what has

1270
00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:43,760
changed the most for you in ufology

1271
00:46:47,510 --> 00:46:45,760
since you first got involved

1272
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:47,520
up until today i mean we talk about the

1273
00:46:52,790 --> 00:46:50,400
mainstream acceptance or what's happened

1274
00:46:54,630 --> 00:46:52,800
in the past few years that's great like

1275
00:46:57,190 --> 00:46:54,640
that's that's a huge step that we've

1276
00:46:58,630 --> 00:46:57,200
made but i guess on more of a personal

1277
00:47:01,990 --> 00:46:58,640
level um

1278
00:47:04,230 --> 00:47:02,000
and you know variables nuances i guess

1279
00:47:07,670 --> 00:47:04,240
is a better word what has really changed

1280
00:47:09,589 --> 00:47:07,680
in ufology in the past 70 plus years has

1281
00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:09,599
anything changed are we at the same

1282
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:11,680
point we were same questions we were

1283
00:47:17,829 --> 00:47:14,160
asking 70 plus years ago

1284
00:47:19,030 --> 00:47:17,839
when i entered the field it was um

1285
00:47:20,870 --> 00:47:19,040
you know people can argue

1286
00:47:22,549 --> 00:47:20,880
philosophically you chose it but you

1287
00:47:24,710 --> 00:47:22,559
just don't remember it

1288
00:47:27,670 --> 00:47:24,720
or it was always what you were destined

1289
00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:27,680
to what have you as far as i'm concerned

1290
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:28,800
um

1291
00:47:35,670 --> 00:47:33,760
the life i was living the priorities i

1292
00:47:38,790 --> 00:47:35,680
had jumped the track

1293
00:47:41,670 --> 00:47:38,800
uh following a profoundly life-changing

1294
00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:41,680
conversation i had with my sister helen

1295
00:47:46,549 --> 00:47:44,160
involving um

1296
00:47:48,710 --> 00:47:46,559
a return memory of childhood of our

1297
00:47:50,390 --> 00:47:48,720
childhood ufo sighting

1298
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:50,400
and that being the impetus for her to

1299
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:52,880
tell me about her conscious memories

1300
00:47:58,549 --> 00:47:55,280
of her abduction experience

1301
00:48:00,630 --> 00:47:58,559
and everything changed around that

1302
00:48:02,630 --> 00:48:00,640
and i had no idea that there was

1303
00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:02,640
something called ufology

1304
00:48:06,790 --> 00:48:04,400
i didn't know there was a world of

1305
00:48:09,270 --> 00:48:06,800
people that study this or that had

1306
00:48:10,790 --> 00:48:09,280
claimed experiences it just was never

1307
00:48:12,309 --> 00:48:10,800
anything that really entered into my

1308
00:48:14,549 --> 00:48:12,319
life

1309
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:14,559
and so i began

1310
00:48:19,510 --> 00:48:16,640
at the absolute baseline

1311
00:48:21,030 --> 00:48:19,520
and at a time where we were still

1312
00:48:22,630 --> 00:48:21,040
decades away

1313
00:48:25,750 --> 00:48:22,640
from the internet

1314
00:48:27,990 --> 00:48:25,760
where print publication ruled

1315
00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:28,000
and regular conventional television and

1316
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,710
and

1317
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:37,910
all i knew was that

1318
00:48:43,030 --> 00:48:41,200
i was obsessed with

1319
00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:43,040
what were these things that helen and i

1320
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:44,960
had seen in the sky

1321
00:48:50,069 --> 00:48:46,960
what did they represent

1322
00:48:52,390 --> 00:48:50,079
um how they were going to impact on the

1323
00:48:54,230 --> 00:48:52,400
human race or how they were

1324
00:48:57,349 --> 00:48:54,240
impacting on the human race

1325
00:48:59,750 --> 00:48:57,359
and what happened to my sister

1326
00:49:02,390 --> 00:48:59,760
just while i think of it

1327
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:02,400
some years after maybe 15 years later

1328
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:03,839
helen and i

1329
00:49:07,430 --> 00:49:05,599
were sharing an apartment in new york

1330
00:49:09,510 --> 00:49:07,440
and we watched the pilot episode of a

1331
00:49:13,270 --> 00:49:09,520
new television show

1332
00:49:17,750 --> 00:49:16,470
fans of the x-files or not i highly

1333
00:49:21,190 --> 00:49:17,760
recommend

1334
00:49:23,349 --> 00:49:21,200
folks to find that pilot episode

1335
00:49:26,309 --> 00:49:23,359
and watch it if you are

1336
00:49:29,349 --> 00:49:26,319
a television viewer

1337
00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:29,359
it's really quite a perfect pilot we are

1338
00:49:33,589 --> 00:49:31,680
introduced to our main characters

1339
00:49:34,790 --> 00:49:33,599
their motivations the world in which

1340
00:49:37,750 --> 00:49:34,800
they live in

1341
00:49:39,030 --> 00:49:37,760
and what they are about to embark on

1342
00:49:40,069 --> 00:49:39,040
together

1343
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:40,079
uh

1344
00:49:44,790 --> 00:49:41,520
and

1345
00:49:46,470 --> 00:49:44,800
fox mulder the fbi agent obsessed

1346
00:49:48,470 --> 00:49:46,480
was obsessed

1347
00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:48,480
with what happened to his sister

1348
00:49:52,630 --> 00:49:50,240
she was taken

1349
00:49:54,630 --> 00:49:52,640
in that case though for the sake of the

1350
00:49:57,510 --> 00:49:54,640
drama she was not returned

1351
00:50:00,230 --> 00:49:57,520
and this drove him to become this

1352
00:50:02,309 --> 00:50:00,240
kind of outsider fbi investigator

1353
00:50:04,390 --> 00:50:02,319
focused on paranormal and ufo related

1354
00:50:05,430 --> 00:50:04,400
events and at the end of the episode i

1355
00:50:07,589 --> 00:50:05,440
remember

1356
00:50:08,790 --> 00:50:07,599
poignantly my sister turning to me and

1357
00:50:10,549 --> 00:50:08,800
says

1358
00:50:12,390 --> 00:50:10,559
that character is you

1359
00:50:13,829 --> 00:50:12,400
except that i came back

1360
00:50:15,190 --> 00:50:13,839
i thought

1361
00:50:16,470 --> 00:50:15,200
wow

1362
00:50:18,150 --> 00:50:16,480
um

1363
00:50:19,829 --> 00:50:18,160
how did i begin

1364
00:50:22,309 --> 00:50:19,839
i didn't know there were ufo

1365
00:50:24,069 --> 00:50:22,319
publications i'm sure i would look at

1366
00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:24,079
one on a newsstand and just not see it

1367
00:50:27,109 --> 00:50:25,760
wasn't interesting to me

1368
00:50:30,150 --> 00:50:27,119
but there are a number of magazines out

1369
00:50:31,910 --> 00:50:30,160
there at the time which i started to buy

1370
00:50:33,670 --> 00:50:31,920
when i go to use bookstores i wasn't

1371
00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:33,680
just looking for art books now i was

1372
00:50:39,030 --> 00:50:36,480
looking for books on ufos

1373
00:50:41,990 --> 00:50:39,040
and i had enough foresight to know if i

1374
00:50:44,069 --> 00:50:42,000
was going to get involved in this field

1375
00:50:45,829 --> 00:50:44,079
i should have a working knowledge of

1376
00:50:48,309 --> 00:50:45,839
what the parameters were

1377
00:50:50,390 --> 00:50:48,319
and that meant everything from a book

1378
00:50:52,390 --> 00:50:50,400
like

1379
00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:52,400
frying sauces from outer space by the

1380
00:50:57,430 --> 00:50:54,960
great um donald kehoe

1381
00:50:59,190 --> 00:50:57,440
a honorably retired united states air

1382
00:51:01,829 --> 00:50:59,200
force combat pilot

1383
00:51:03,990 --> 00:51:01,839
who wrote a series of outstanding books

1384
00:51:06,870 --> 00:51:04,000
in the early 60s

1385
00:51:11,430 --> 00:51:06,880
primarily on ufos

1386
00:51:16,950 --> 00:51:14,150
that book was the first legitimate true

1387
00:51:19,349 --> 00:51:16,960
american bestseller on the subject

1388
00:51:20,950 --> 00:51:19,359
and he catapulted more to national

1389
00:51:22,950 --> 00:51:20,960
attention

1390
00:51:25,109 --> 00:51:22,960
by being a regular guest on one of the

1391
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:25,119
legendary talk shows back then the host

1392
00:51:28,309 --> 00:51:26,960
being long john neville

1393
00:51:31,910 --> 00:51:28,319
uh

1394
00:51:33,270 --> 00:51:31,920
neville's popularity um as a broadcaster

1395
00:51:35,190 --> 00:51:33,280
and he never shied away from that

1396
00:51:37,589 --> 00:51:35,200
subject

1397
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:37,599
was then kind of picked up by frank

1398
00:51:42,150 --> 00:51:39,920
edwards who became an even more popular

1399
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:42,160
broadcaster and wrote several books on

1400
00:51:48,069 --> 00:51:44,880
ufos in the paranormal

1401
00:51:50,710 --> 00:51:48,079
and became even more famous

1402
00:51:53,829 --> 00:51:50,720
i listened to long john neville shows a

1403
00:51:57,990 --> 00:51:55,430
and

1404
00:52:00,069 --> 00:51:58,000
most of the press coverage on

1405
00:52:02,470 --> 00:52:00,079
ufos per se

1406
00:52:05,910 --> 00:52:02,480
was relegated to the tabloids

1407
00:52:07,990 --> 00:52:05,920
so immediately came with a caveat of

1408
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:08,000
take this with a grain of salt

1409
00:52:10,870 --> 00:52:09,839
one of the ironies there is that we now

1410
00:52:13,589 --> 00:52:10,880
know

1411
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:13,599
that some of the more sensational

1412
00:52:19,589 --> 00:52:16,240
um cases for lack of a better term

1413
00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:19,599
covered by the famous national enquirer

1414
00:52:24,710 --> 00:52:22,079
were in great part very accurate

1415
00:52:27,109 --> 00:52:24,720
but just by nature they sounded off the

1416
00:52:28,630 --> 00:52:27,119
wall and extreme but and especially in

1417
00:52:30,309 --> 00:52:28,640
the context

1418
00:52:32,710 --> 00:52:30,319
of

1419
00:52:34,470 --> 00:52:32,720
the the inquirers you know publishing

1420
00:52:35,510 --> 00:52:34,480
policy and then even

1421
00:52:42,230 --> 00:52:35,520
more

1422
00:52:45,109 --> 00:52:42,240
that just were goofy and you know were

1423
00:52:47,270 --> 00:52:45,119
funny um without meaning to be and

1424
00:52:49,430 --> 00:52:47,280
sometimes meaning to be i'm sure

1425
00:52:51,910 --> 00:52:49,440
with famous headlines and silly doctored

1426
00:52:54,309 --> 00:52:51,920
photographs of famous people interfacing

1427
00:52:56,950 --> 00:52:54,319
with aliens and all that stuff

1428
00:52:59,750 --> 00:52:56,960
i knew that my sister and i were sane as

1429
00:53:01,910 --> 00:52:59,760
well as i could know it

1430
00:53:04,950 --> 00:53:01,920
after she confirmed to me without my

1431
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:04,960
feeding her any lines what i remembered

1432
00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:06,960
it was a validation for me of the

1433
00:53:13,030 --> 00:53:09,599
reality of my memory

1434
00:53:15,829 --> 00:53:13,040
but i did start with the attitude that

1435
00:53:17,589 --> 00:53:15,839
other will laughingly call grown-ups who

1436
00:53:20,150 --> 00:53:17,599
were involved in this field

1437
00:53:21,910 --> 00:53:20,160
probably had a screw loose i mean

1438
00:53:23,589 --> 00:53:21,920
a grown-up who's devoting their life to

1439
00:53:24,870 --> 00:53:23,599
studying flying saucers give me a

1440
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:24,880
break

1441
00:53:27,670 --> 00:53:26,800
this is just silly stuff

1442
00:53:29,910 --> 00:53:27,680
um

1443
00:53:32,549 --> 00:53:29,920
i had never been to a ufo conference and

1444
00:53:33,829 --> 00:53:32,559
it was years until i did go to one

1445
00:53:34,549 --> 00:53:33,839
but

1446
00:53:40,630 --> 00:53:34,559
i

1447
00:53:43,270 --> 00:53:40,640
komen von kavetsky

1448
00:53:45,829 --> 00:53:43,280
who was a uh hungarian emigre who

1449
00:53:48,870 --> 00:53:45,839
emigrated here in 1952

1450
00:53:51,510 --> 00:53:48,880
who before world war ii had been a film

1451
00:53:53,670 --> 00:53:51,520
director um and i'm sure living a very

1452
00:53:55,670 --> 00:53:53,680
colorful life in hungary

1453
00:53:57,670 --> 00:53:55,680
who because of his knowledge of optics

1454
00:54:00,870 --> 00:53:57,680
and film

1455
00:54:03,829 --> 00:54:00,880
became a member of the general staff of

1456
00:54:07,030 --> 00:54:03,839
the hungarian army during world war ii

1457
00:54:08,870 --> 00:54:07,040
charged with responsibility for

1458
00:54:11,270 --> 00:54:08,880
audio visual education like

1459
00:54:13,750 --> 00:54:11,280
manufacturing film strips for training

1460
00:54:15,829 --> 00:54:13,760
and photo analysis

1461
00:54:18,549 --> 00:54:15,839
at the end of the war

1462
00:54:20,069 --> 00:54:18,559
he was able thankfully to surrender to

1463
00:54:22,069 --> 00:54:20,079
the americans rather than being caught

1464
00:54:26,069 --> 00:54:22,079
and killed by the russians

1465
00:54:28,150 --> 00:54:26,079
and um for seven years worked in helping

1466
00:54:30,309 --> 00:54:28,160
to repatriate mostly

1467
00:54:31,829 --> 00:54:30,319
survivors of the camps with existing

1468
00:54:35,190 --> 00:54:31,839
relatives

1469
00:54:37,670 --> 00:54:35,200
and the american government to

1470
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:37,680
i guess in a sense acknowledge his

1471
00:54:42,309 --> 00:54:39,359
sincerity and

1472
00:54:44,549 --> 00:54:42,319
having been an enemy you know certainly

1473
00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:44,559
or on the wrong side

1474
00:54:48,470 --> 00:54:46,400
allowed him and his young family to

1475
00:54:50,870 --> 00:54:48,480
emigrate to america

1476
00:54:52,470 --> 00:54:50,880
several months before the washington dc

1477
00:54:54,789 --> 00:54:52,480
over flights

1478
00:54:56,470 --> 00:54:54,799
and for coleman it was a matter of

1479
00:54:58,390 --> 00:54:56,480
seeing those photos

1480
00:54:59,510 --> 00:54:58,400
of these unknowns over the capitol

1481
00:55:00,789 --> 00:54:59,520
building

1482
00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:00,799
that convinced him that there was

1483
00:55:05,750 --> 00:55:03,680
something real and important here

1484
00:55:07,349 --> 00:55:05,760
and he began his involvement in the

1485
00:55:10,069 --> 00:55:07,359
field

1486
00:55:12,630 --> 00:55:10,079
he also was a strategic military thinker

1487
00:55:13,430 --> 00:55:12,640
a military scientist in a way

1488
00:55:15,990 --> 00:55:13,440
who

1489
00:55:18,829 --> 00:55:16,000
i grew to greatly admire and really love

1490
00:55:21,510 --> 00:55:18,839
as my first mentor in the work

1491
00:55:22,390 --> 00:55:21,520
um because

1492
00:55:24,950 --> 00:55:22,400
like

1493
00:55:26,870 --> 00:55:24,960
probably 99 of hungarians he was a

1494
00:55:30,069 --> 00:55:26,880
practicing catholic

1495
00:55:33,190 --> 00:55:30,079
and um you know went to mass on sundays

1496
00:55:35,670 --> 00:55:33,200
but he separated his religious beliefs

1497
00:55:38,230 --> 00:55:35,680
from his study of the phenomena and felt

1498
00:55:40,710 --> 00:55:38,240
that that discipline was needed

1499
00:55:42,549 --> 00:55:40,720
this should not be the subject of

1500
00:55:43,510 --> 00:55:42,559
theological thinking

1501
00:55:45,030 --> 00:55:43,520
and

1502
00:55:46,870 --> 00:55:45,040
imparted in me

1503
00:55:49,349 --> 00:55:46,880
an understanding

1504
00:55:50,470 --> 00:55:49,359
of basic research methods

1505
00:55:53,190 --> 00:55:50,480
which

1506
00:55:54,789 --> 00:55:53,200
he introduced me to detective sergeant

1507
00:55:55,910 --> 00:55:54,799
pete mazzolo of the new york city police

1508
00:55:58,309 --> 00:55:55,920
department

1509
00:56:00,630 --> 00:55:58,319
who is a crack

1510
00:56:03,670 --> 00:56:00,640
police officer and police detective

1511
00:56:05,829 --> 00:56:03,680
very courageous

1512
00:56:07,349 --> 00:56:05,839
injured on a number of occasions in the

1513
00:56:09,270 --> 00:56:07,359
course of his work

1514
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:09,280
who also happened to be

1515
00:56:14,870 --> 00:56:12,880
a really outstanding ufo investigator

1516
00:56:16,789 --> 00:56:14,880
and who um

1517
00:56:19,589 --> 00:56:16,799
died much too soon

1518
00:56:21,589 --> 00:56:19,599
but um pete reinforced that

1519
00:56:22,870 --> 00:56:21,599
understanding of building triangulating

1520
00:56:25,589 --> 00:56:22,880
evidence

1521
00:56:28,309 --> 00:56:25,599
building a case so to say

1522
00:56:31,109 --> 00:56:28,319
in very reward world terms on a

1523
00:56:32,789 --> 00:56:31,119
combination of factors it could be as

1524
00:56:35,030 --> 00:56:32,799
diverse as

1525
00:56:38,309 --> 00:56:35,040
photographic evidence

1526
00:56:40,309 --> 00:56:38,319
historic multiple testimony

1527
00:56:41,270 --> 00:56:40,319
physiological

1528
00:56:43,510 --> 00:56:41,280
changes

1529
00:56:46,390 --> 00:56:43,520
in organic material what we call trace

1530
00:56:53,030 --> 00:56:48,390
witness sightings

1531
00:56:54,710 --> 00:56:53,040
but all together not building on one leg

1532
00:56:56,390 --> 00:56:54,720
and ultimately

1533
00:56:58,630 --> 00:56:56,400
while this was going on i was building a

1534
00:57:01,109 --> 00:56:58,640
friendship with a painter in new york

1535
00:57:02,470 --> 00:57:01,119
like myself who shared a very serious

1536
00:57:03,829 --> 00:57:02,480
interest in the subject named bud

1537
00:57:05,829 --> 00:57:03,839
hopkins

1538
00:57:08,390 --> 00:57:05,839
and bud and i met five years before he

1539
00:57:09,270 --> 00:57:08,400
published his first book on ufos missing

1540
00:57:11,750 --> 00:57:09,280
time

1541
00:57:12,870 --> 00:57:11,760
which was a game changer in the field

1542
00:57:15,349 --> 00:57:12,880
and

1543
00:57:17,030 --> 00:57:15,359
our friendship mutated a bit into my

1544
00:57:18,549 --> 00:57:17,040
being his assistant

1545
00:57:21,109 --> 00:57:18,559
as more and more letters came in and

1546
00:57:23,750 --> 00:57:21,119
more and more cases were worked

1547
00:57:27,270 --> 00:57:23,760
so i was very fortunate in that sense of

1548
00:57:29,510 --> 00:57:27,280
building that network my first

1549
00:57:30,870 --> 00:57:29,520
contemporary age colleague

1550
00:57:33,829 --> 00:57:30,880
was

1551
00:57:34,710 --> 00:57:33,839
about my age maybe a little younger

1552
00:58:00,309 --> 00:57:34,720
a

1553
00:58:02,470 --> 00:58:00,319
timothy green beckley who introduced me

1554
00:58:06,230 --> 00:58:02,480
to john keel

1555
00:58:07,030 --> 00:58:06,240
i started to correspond with gray barker

1556
00:58:09,109 --> 00:58:07,040
who

1557
00:58:09,990 --> 00:58:09,119
was very close

1558
00:58:11,349 --> 00:58:10,000
to um

1559
00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:11,359
[Music]

1560
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:14,400
um well not greg barker um

1561
00:58:18,870 --> 00:58:16,240
um saucer smear

1562
00:58:21,910 --> 00:58:18,880
oh jim mosley jim mosley

1563
00:58:23,030 --> 00:58:21,920
who i i learned about gray barker's work

1564
00:58:24,950 --> 00:58:23,040
through

1565
00:58:27,670 --> 00:58:24,960
and

1566
00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:27,680
i gave my very first talk

1567
00:58:31,109 --> 00:58:29,760
which was pieced together very much cut

1568
00:58:33,910 --> 00:58:31,119
and paste stuff

1569
00:58:36,230 --> 00:58:33,920
oral presentation

1570
00:58:38,549 --> 00:58:36,240
on the stage of the school of visual

1571
00:58:39,750 --> 00:58:38,559
arts auditorium where i was a faculty

1572
00:58:42,390 --> 00:58:39,760
member

1573
00:58:44,390 --> 00:58:42,400
with bud hopkins we gave our first ufo

1574
00:58:45,990 --> 00:58:44,400
talks together on the same stage at the

1575
00:58:46,950 --> 00:58:46,000
same time

1576
00:58:50,549 --> 00:58:46,960
with him

1577
00:58:52,950 --> 00:58:50,559
bringing on that stage his first case

1578
00:58:54,950 --> 00:58:52,960
witness a man named george obarsky who

1579
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:54,960
was involved in a profoundly important

1580
00:59:01,270 --> 00:58:57,920
ufo sighting very well documented

1581
00:59:04,230 --> 00:59:02,390
i believe

1582
00:59:08,630 --> 00:59:04,240
and

1583
00:59:11,510 --> 00:59:08,640
i then gave a talk the next year in a

1584
00:59:16,390 --> 00:59:13,829
i worked with a public access

1585
00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:16,400
new york city television station

1586
00:59:20,870 --> 00:59:18,480
and put together a documentary what do i

1587
00:59:22,549 --> 00:59:20,880
mean by documentary literally cutting

1588
00:59:24,789 --> 00:59:22,559
and pasting pictures

1589
00:59:27,030 --> 00:59:24,799
showing them on screen allowing my own

1590
00:59:29,109 --> 00:59:27,040
voice to be a voice over

1591
00:59:31,270 --> 00:59:29,119
it was very amateur

1592
00:59:33,109 --> 00:59:31,280
but they were looking for content and i

1593
00:59:34,150 --> 00:59:33,119
was looking for an audience and so it

1594
00:59:37,349 --> 00:59:34,160
went

1595
00:59:38,950 --> 00:59:37,359
in 1980 or 81 i gave my very first

1596
00:59:40,870 --> 00:59:38,960
conference talk

1597
00:59:42,789 --> 00:59:40,880
to an organization long gone now the

1598
00:59:43,990 --> 00:59:42,799
scientific bureau of investigation which

1599
00:59:46,470 --> 00:59:44,000
was really

1600
00:59:48,870 --> 00:59:46,480
primarily a lobby of police officers

1601
00:59:51,270 --> 00:59:48,880
around the united states

1602
00:59:53,349 --> 00:59:51,280
who had an interest in this subject

1603
00:59:54,549 --> 00:59:53,359
and who more and more were getting ufo

1604
00:59:57,109 --> 00:59:54,559
reports

1605
00:59:59,270 --> 00:59:57,119
after the air force officially announced

1606
01:00:00,710 --> 00:59:59,280
it was going out of the ufo business in

1607
01:00:02,549 --> 01:00:00,720
68

1608
01:00:04,710 --> 01:00:02,559
of course they didn't but

1609
01:00:06,549 --> 01:00:04,720
then the university of colorado report

1610
01:00:08,150 --> 01:00:06,559
that essentially discounted all but a

1611
01:00:09,670 --> 01:00:08,160
few cases

1612
01:00:11,270 --> 01:00:09,680
and um

1613
01:00:12,630 --> 01:00:11,280
i guess

1614
01:00:15,750 --> 01:00:12,640
in

1615
01:00:17,349 --> 01:00:15,760
78 or so i submitted a manuscript for my

1616
01:00:20,069 --> 01:00:17,359
very first article

1617
01:00:22,549 --> 01:00:20,079
which primarily was an article about

1618
01:00:25,829 --> 01:00:22,559
some of my travels in india

1619
01:00:27,990 --> 01:00:25,839
and then i uh was accepted another

1620
01:00:31,349 --> 01:00:28,000
article is accepted on synchronicity i

1621
01:00:33,109 --> 01:00:31,359
was quite fascinated with jung's concept

1622
01:00:34,950 --> 01:00:33,119
of it and kept it synchronous

1623
01:00:37,030 --> 01:00:34,960
synchronicity journal

1624
01:00:39,109 --> 01:00:37,040
and then had my first ufo article

1625
01:00:42,950 --> 01:00:39,119
accepted

1626
01:00:45,589 --> 01:00:42,960
and so i entered the field that way

1627
01:00:49,030 --> 01:00:45,599
but still um

1628
01:00:50,789 --> 01:00:49,040
although my heart was not in it

1629
01:00:53,430 --> 01:00:50,799
much as i wish it was

1630
01:00:56,470 --> 01:00:53,440
um i was still showing my paintings and

1631
01:00:58,470 --> 01:00:56,480
sculptures at galleries downtown my core

1632
01:01:00,010 --> 01:00:58,480
friends were still the artist community

1633
01:01:01,109 --> 01:01:00,020
in new york city

1634
01:01:02,470 --> 01:01:01,119
[Music]

1635
01:01:04,710 --> 01:01:02,480
i was making

1636
01:01:06,150 --> 01:01:04,720
part of my living teaching painting at

1637
01:01:08,390 --> 01:01:06,160
the school of visual arts in their

1638
01:01:10,710 --> 01:01:08,400
school of continuing education

1639
01:01:11,910 --> 01:01:10,720
and working as one of many artists

1640
01:01:13,990 --> 01:01:11,920
journeyman

1641
01:01:16,230 --> 01:01:14,000
um blue-collar

1642
01:01:18,069 --> 01:01:16,240
construction people in the soho building

1643
01:01:19,349 --> 01:01:18,079
boom myself mostly as a framing

1644
01:01:20,870 --> 01:01:19,359
carpenter

1645
01:01:24,549 --> 01:01:20,880
and um

1646
01:01:26,789 --> 01:01:24,559
we worked hard doing jobs it was like

1647
01:01:27,589 --> 01:01:26,799
the gold rush um money was coming into

1648
01:01:29,270 --> 01:01:27,599
that

1649
01:01:31,430 --> 01:01:29,280
formally

1650
01:01:33,750 --> 01:01:31,440
god forsaken 10 square blocks in new

1651
01:01:34,470 --> 01:01:33,760
york that we call soho that became alive

1652
01:01:37,270 --> 01:01:34,480
with

1653
01:01:40,309 --> 01:01:37,280
galleries and you know trendy

1654
01:01:42,549 --> 01:01:40,319
coffee shops and bars and pubs and

1655
01:01:44,710 --> 01:01:42,559
you know upscale

1656
01:01:46,789 --> 01:01:44,720
haberdashers and all that

1657
01:01:48,870 --> 01:01:46,799
by working on buildings i remember at

1658
01:01:51,030 --> 01:01:48,880
one point

1659
01:01:52,710 --> 01:01:51,040
during a break because framing

1660
01:01:54,630 --> 01:01:52,720
carpenters have to work

1661
01:01:56,309 --> 01:01:54,640
with plumbers and electricians you can't

1662
01:01:57,910 --> 01:01:56,319
finish putting up the wall board after

1663
01:01:59,670 --> 01:01:57,920
you put up the studs until they run the

1664
01:02:01,109 --> 01:01:59,680
pipes and wires through

1665
01:02:03,430 --> 01:02:01,119
with one of the

1666
01:02:05,349 --> 01:02:03,440
artists plumbers who happen to be

1667
01:02:07,510 --> 01:02:05,359
a composer and just chatting with him

1668
01:02:09,750 --> 01:02:07,520
over our sandwiches at a break

1669
01:02:11,990 --> 01:02:09,760
and then a year or two later when he

1670
01:02:14,470 --> 01:02:12,000
gave his first performance

1671
01:02:16,789 --> 01:02:14,480
at the first um

1672
01:02:19,910 --> 01:02:16,799
really kind of counterculture

1673
01:02:21,750 --> 01:02:19,920
new wave of artists institution a place

1674
01:02:22,950 --> 01:02:21,760
called the kitchen open performing space

1675
01:02:25,109 --> 01:02:22,960
it was like wow

1676
01:02:26,710 --> 01:02:25,119
you know phil bless as good as what he's

1677
01:02:29,029 --> 01:02:26,720
doing there and wonder if he'll ever

1678
01:02:31,670 --> 01:02:29,039
make it

1679
01:02:33,430 --> 01:02:31,680
he's a good plumber

1680
01:02:35,349 --> 01:02:33,440
and

1681
01:02:37,349 --> 01:02:35,359
then

1682
01:02:40,870 --> 01:02:37,359
just getting deeper involved and meeting

1683
01:02:42,549 --> 01:02:40,880
some of my contemporaries um

1684
01:02:44,549 --> 01:02:42,559
starting to develop the courage to reach

1685
01:02:45,670 --> 01:02:44,559
out to the people who are really admired

1686
01:02:46,630 --> 01:02:45,680
in the work

1687
01:02:51,510 --> 01:02:46,640
um

1688
01:02:56,390 --> 01:02:53,510
leonard stringfield

1689
01:02:58,230 --> 01:02:56,400
and meeting these people and developing

1690
01:02:59,510 --> 01:02:58,240
work relationships and friendships with

1691
01:03:02,150 --> 01:02:59,520
them

1692
01:03:04,390 --> 01:03:02,160
developing opportunities to speak at

1693
01:03:05,990 --> 01:03:04,400
different conferences

1694
01:03:07,670 --> 01:03:06,000
occasionally being interviewed on a

1695
01:03:10,069 --> 01:03:07,680
radio show which was quite a big deal

1696
01:03:11,510 --> 01:03:10,079
back then

1697
01:03:13,109 --> 01:03:11,520
then you see yourself occasionally

1698
01:03:14,789 --> 01:03:13,119
quoted in something and that's very

1699
01:03:17,029 --> 01:03:14,799
exciting

1700
01:03:19,349 --> 01:03:17,039
continuing to build my library i've

1701
01:03:22,710 --> 01:03:19,359
always been a library builder

1702
01:03:24,789 --> 01:03:22,720
in that as a young person

1703
01:03:26,870 --> 01:03:24,799
once i embraced reading in earnest once

1704
01:03:28,870 --> 01:03:26,880
i had mastered it there was really no

1705
01:03:31,270 --> 01:03:28,880
stopping me and our little public

1706
01:03:32,069 --> 01:03:31,280
library in rockville center new york

1707
01:03:33,990 --> 01:03:32,079
from

1708
01:03:34,789 --> 01:03:34,000
maybe just a few weeks after we moved

1709
01:03:36,870 --> 01:03:34,799
there

1710
01:03:39,349 --> 01:03:36,880
a very proud day for me is my mom taking

1711
01:03:40,870 --> 01:03:39,359
me to the library and upstairs with the

1712
01:03:42,789 --> 01:03:40,880
adult library downstairs with the

1713
01:03:43,589 --> 01:03:42,799
children's library and getting a library

1714
01:03:45,670 --> 01:03:43,599
card

1715
01:03:47,589 --> 01:03:45,680
it was the first kind of grown-up

1716
01:03:48,630 --> 01:03:47,599
identification i had

1717
01:03:50,309 --> 01:03:48,640
and

1718
01:03:51,829 --> 01:03:50,319
not long after old enough to take my

1719
01:03:53,510 --> 01:03:51,839
bike to the library on my own and

1720
01:03:55,270 --> 01:03:53,520
starting to i could take books out of

1721
01:03:57,510 --> 01:03:55,280
the real library too

1722
01:03:59,990 --> 01:03:57,520
my father gave me several books that

1723
01:04:02,870 --> 01:04:00,000
affected me profoundly as a young person

1724
01:04:05,109 --> 01:04:02,880
brilliantly important books

1725
01:04:07,270 --> 01:04:05,119
in my life including

1726
01:04:09,589 --> 01:04:07,280
20 000 leagues under the sea

1727
01:04:10,710 --> 01:04:09,599
in terms of i guess great science

1728
01:04:12,630 --> 01:04:10,720
fiction

1729
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:12,640
and a book that is now back in the news

1730
01:04:18,150 --> 01:04:15,680
because of this re-animation of this

1731
01:04:19,349 --> 01:04:18,160
book banning mania that occasionally uh

1732
01:04:21,029 --> 01:04:19,359
envelops

1733
01:04:24,789 --> 01:04:21,039
the world of anti-intellectuals in

1734
01:04:28,390 --> 01:04:26,710
just feel the need to control what other

1735
01:04:30,470 --> 01:04:28,400
people are taking in

1736
01:04:32,950 --> 01:04:30,480
um huckleberry finn one of the most

1737
01:04:34,950 --> 01:04:32,960
innocent sighting sounding titles

1738
01:04:36,950 --> 01:04:34,960
but one um

1739
01:04:39,990 --> 01:04:36,960
still considered extremely controversial

1740
01:04:41,510 --> 01:04:40,000
for repeated use of the word that

1741
01:04:43,270 --> 01:04:41,520
electrifies it

1742
01:04:45,510 --> 01:04:43,280
which was totally appropriate to that

1743
01:04:46,549 --> 01:04:45,520
book and that story told in that time

1744
01:04:49,910 --> 01:04:46,559
frame

1745
01:04:51,589 --> 01:04:49,920
and moves later that i learned about um

1746
01:04:54,950 --> 01:04:51,599
to remove that word

1747
01:04:56,710 --> 01:04:54,960
from the book and reprint it or anathema

1748
01:04:59,109 --> 01:04:56,720
to me you either

1749
01:05:00,549 --> 01:04:59,119
get it as it is or you don't

1750
01:05:02,630 --> 01:05:00,559
anyway

1751
01:05:03,750 --> 01:05:02,640
at a certain point

1752
01:05:09,270 --> 01:05:03,760
i'm

1753
01:05:12,390 --> 01:05:09,280
with people all over by mail by letters

1754
01:05:14,549 --> 01:05:12,400
these files are filled with letters

1755
01:05:16,470 --> 01:05:14,559
some of them handwritten and then i've

1756
01:05:19,190 --> 01:05:16,480
got a typewriter and you know you're

1757
01:05:20,069 --> 01:05:19,200
back to that this is all pre-computer

1758
01:05:22,470 --> 01:05:20,079
and

1759
01:05:25,270 --> 01:05:22,480
occasionally a phone call but you know

1760
01:05:27,589 --> 01:05:25,280
long distance call cost money

1761
01:05:28,390 --> 01:05:27,599
and i didn't know many people locally

1762
01:05:30,309 --> 01:05:28,400
so

1763
01:05:32,470 --> 01:05:30,319
building my world

1764
01:05:34,069 --> 01:05:32,480
in a very analog sense and you see

1765
01:05:36,870 --> 01:05:34,079
notebook after notebook there some of

1766
01:05:39,190 --> 01:05:36,880
them going back to the later 1970s

1767
01:05:42,230 --> 01:05:39,200
filled with cut and paste

1768
01:05:44,230 --> 01:05:42,240
articles and pictures and

1769
01:05:46,390 --> 01:05:44,240
documents that coleman would give me

1770
01:05:48,950 --> 01:05:46,400
that i'd carefully read and highlight

1771
01:05:52,069 --> 01:05:48,960
and underline and then photograph

1772
01:05:54,630 --> 01:05:52,079
and at that time when i was first

1773
01:05:56,870 --> 01:05:54,640
being invited to

1774
01:06:00,789 --> 01:05:56,880
speak at a conference here there

1775
01:06:01,910 --> 01:06:00,799
you would show up with a kodak carousel

1776
01:06:06,470 --> 01:06:01,920
wheel

1777
01:06:09,910 --> 01:06:06,480
of 80 or 120

1778
01:06:12,390 --> 01:06:09,920
and mine like most of my colleagues were

1779
01:06:13,990 --> 01:06:12,400
photographs of stuff

1780
01:06:17,270 --> 01:06:14,000
and

1781
01:06:19,270 --> 01:06:17,280
that's 12 by 12 by like three inches or

1782
01:06:21,510 --> 01:06:19,280
something that you're packing in your

1783
01:06:23,270 --> 01:06:21,520
luggage or whatever or if you're really

1784
01:06:25,349 --> 01:06:23,280
daring that you just keep them in the

1785
01:06:26,870 --> 01:06:25,359
little boxes and set them up having to

1786
01:06:28,630 --> 01:06:26,880
remember each one has to go in upside

1787
01:06:30,870 --> 01:06:28,640
down and backwards

1788
01:06:33,670 --> 01:06:30,880
and if you're lazy and stupid that you

1789
01:06:35,430 --> 01:06:33,680
say sure you can do that for me

1790
01:06:37,589 --> 01:06:35,440
and that first time that you push that

1791
01:06:40,549 --> 01:06:37,599
first slide and it is upside down and

1792
01:06:42,390 --> 01:06:40,559
backwards and you know they all are

1793
01:06:44,710 --> 01:06:42,400
and everybody's going like this and you

1794
01:06:47,430 --> 01:06:44,720
feel like the idiot you are

1795
01:06:49,109 --> 01:06:47,440
um you learn you develop your craft and

1796
01:06:52,069 --> 01:06:49,119
then at a certain point of course a

1797
01:06:54,700 --> 01:06:52,079
change to uh more modern technology and

1798
01:06:56,230 --> 01:06:54,710
and powerpoint

1799
01:06:58,870 --> 01:06:56,240
[Music]

1800
01:07:01,109 --> 01:06:58,880
do you like stories of the strange the

1801
01:07:03,990 --> 01:07:01,119
weird and the unexplained then we want

1802
01:07:06,630 --> 01:07:04,000
you to check out jim harold's campfire

1803
01:07:09,430 --> 01:07:06,640
the concept is pretty simple jim talks

1804
01:07:11,510 --> 01:07:09,440
to regular people about strange stuff

1805
01:07:15,190 --> 01:07:11,520
that happens to them and yes that

1806
01:07:17,829 --> 01:07:15,200
includes ufos along with cryptids ghosts

1807
01:07:20,870 --> 01:07:17,839
and head scratchers he doesn't

1808
01:07:23,029 --> 01:07:20,880
exaggerate or play a lot of spooky music

1809
01:07:25,990 --> 01:07:23,039
kinda like i'm doing right now the

1810
01:07:29,109 --> 01:07:26,000
stories speak for themselves ones like a

1811
01:07:31,910 --> 01:07:29,119
ghost story involving serial killer ted

1812
01:07:35,109 --> 01:07:31,920
bundy or the young man who encountered

1813
01:07:37,510 --> 01:07:35,119
an eight-legged demon then there's the

1814
01:07:40,309 --> 01:07:37,520
story of an alien abduction by what

1815
01:07:43,270 --> 01:07:40,319
could be considered a reptilian now not

1816
01:07:45,510 --> 01:07:43,280
all the stories are horrifying some are

1817
01:07:48,069 --> 01:07:45,520
actually pretty heartwarming like a

1818
01:07:50,390 --> 01:07:48,079
visit from a past loved one or a

1819
01:07:53,270 --> 01:07:50,400
peaceful near-death experience

1820
01:07:56,309 --> 01:07:53,280
regardless these are true and

1821
01:07:58,230 --> 01:07:56,319
fascinating stories told by ordinary

1822
01:07:59,910 --> 01:07:58,240
people who've had extraordinary

1823
01:08:02,549 --> 01:07:59,920
experiences

1824
01:08:06,069 --> 01:08:02,559
tune in to jim harold's campfire on

1825
01:08:08,470 --> 01:08:06,079
apple podcasts spotify or wherever you

1826
01:08:09,670 --> 01:08:08,480
listen to somewhere in the skies and

1827
01:08:12,770 --> 01:08:09,680
remember

1828
01:08:17,430 --> 01:08:15,270
[Music]

1829
01:08:20,709 --> 01:08:17,440
hey guys ryan here the summer in the

1830
01:08:22,870 --> 01:08:20,719
skies podcast is a labor of love every

1831
01:08:25,349 --> 01:08:22,880
week and with that comes many different

1832
01:08:27,990 --> 01:08:25,359
costs to keep the show running that's

1833
01:08:30,149 --> 01:08:28,000
where our patreon campaign comes in you

1834
01:08:32,470 --> 01:08:30,159
give what you think the show is worth

1835
01:08:34,390 --> 01:08:32,480
there's different rewards available all

1836
01:08:36,950 --> 01:08:34,400
the time including shout outs on the

1837
01:08:39,749 --> 01:08:36,960
show early editions of main episodes

1838
01:08:42,229 --> 01:08:39,759
bonus episodes and content and very soon

1839
01:08:45,590 --> 01:08:42,239
monthly patron hangouts where we sit

1840
01:08:47,349 --> 01:08:45,600
back and chat all things ufos so i hope

1841
01:08:49,910 --> 01:08:47,359
you'll consider becoming a patreon

1842
01:08:53,189 --> 01:08:49,920
subscriber today to learn more and to

1843
01:08:55,430 --> 01:08:53,199
join visit patreon.com

1844
01:09:01,990 --> 01:08:55,440
somewhereskies thank you for your

1845
01:09:05,510 --> 01:09:04,149
when i entered the field it was

1846
01:09:06,470 --> 01:09:05,520
dominated

1847
01:09:09,189 --> 01:09:06,480
to the

1848
01:09:11,269 --> 01:09:09,199
it still is but to even more degree

1849
01:09:13,910 --> 01:09:11,279
by middle-aged white guys

1850
01:09:16,229 --> 01:09:13,920
and um

1851
01:09:18,070 --> 01:09:16,239
most of them for me

1852
01:09:19,269 --> 01:09:18,080
and this is probably unfair and a bit

1853
01:09:21,829 --> 01:09:19,279
elitist

1854
01:09:23,030 --> 01:09:21,839
but they were so focused on what they

1855
01:09:26,149 --> 01:09:23,040
were doing

1856
01:09:29,189 --> 01:09:26,159
i always liked to think i had a sense of

1857
01:09:31,669 --> 01:09:29,199
style and appearing a certain way and

1858
01:09:33,669 --> 01:09:31,679
you know looking sharp

1859
01:09:36,309 --> 01:09:33,679
would wear

1860
01:09:37,910 --> 01:09:36,319
you know sports jackets from 1950 with

1861
01:09:39,910 --> 01:09:37,920
lapels out to here

1862
01:09:41,990 --> 01:09:39,920
the polyester pants

1863
01:09:43,749 --> 01:09:42,000
you know drip dry shirts

1864
01:09:44,950 --> 01:09:43,759
some tie that should have been burned

1865
01:09:46,789 --> 01:09:44,960
years ago

1866
01:09:49,110 --> 01:09:46,799
real creamed hair and often the

1867
01:09:49,990 --> 01:09:49,120
ubiquitous giant honking flying saucer

1868
01:09:52,309 --> 01:09:50,000
pin

1869
01:09:54,630 --> 01:09:52,319
in lapels and i thought

1870
01:09:56,390 --> 01:09:54,640
if i continue in this work

1871
01:09:59,110 --> 01:09:56,400
what should be my visual role model and

1872
01:10:01,189 --> 01:09:59,120
it evolved fairly quickly of um

1873
01:10:04,149 --> 01:10:01,199
spend money on a suit or two and look as

1874
01:10:07,110 --> 01:10:04,159
close as you can to an investment banker

1875
01:10:08,550 --> 01:10:07,120
and if a talk was videotaped as they

1876
01:10:11,030 --> 01:10:08,560
were often

1877
01:10:12,950 --> 01:10:11,040
to study that tape after

1878
01:10:14,070 --> 01:10:12,960
and

1879
01:10:16,550 --> 01:10:14,080
you know

1880
01:10:18,630 --> 01:10:16,560
you learn things hold your head like

1881
01:10:20,310 --> 01:10:18,640
this and not like this

1882
01:10:22,550 --> 01:10:20,320
don't wear this color

1883
01:10:24,870 --> 01:10:22,560
wear this color

1884
01:10:26,310 --> 01:10:24,880
bad hair day good hair day

1885
01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:26,320
um

1886
01:10:36,070 --> 01:10:33,760
and to allow myself to just have a

1887
01:10:38,070 --> 01:10:36,080
moment of quiet which

1888
01:10:40,229 --> 01:10:38,080
i think is not a bad thing at all it

1889
01:10:41,830 --> 01:10:40,239
actually shows you may be thinking

1890
01:10:42,950 --> 01:10:41,840
for a moment before you say what you're

1891
01:10:45,110 --> 01:10:42,960
going to say next rather than just

1892
01:10:46,070 --> 01:10:45,120
saying what you're going to say next

1893
01:10:47,990 --> 01:10:46,080
and

1894
01:10:49,510 --> 01:10:48,000
building your communication skills mine

1895
01:10:52,149 --> 01:10:49,520
were pretty good to start with but

1896
01:10:53,030 --> 01:10:52,159
certainly room for improvement

1897
01:10:53,830 --> 01:10:53,040
and

1898
01:10:56,149 --> 01:10:53,840
then

1899
01:10:58,709 --> 01:10:56,159
seeing more and more clearly

1900
01:11:00,470 --> 01:10:58,719
the schools the factions that were

1901
01:11:03,110 --> 01:11:00,480
emerging that were always there and that

1902
01:11:04,070 --> 01:11:03,120
are still there slightly mutated

1903
01:11:15,350 --> 01:11:04,080
the

1904
01:11:17,270 --> 01:11:15,360
absolute pragmatic

1905
01:11:20,310 --> 01:11:17,280
nuts and bolts

1906
01:11:22,470 --> 01:11:20,320
often never the twain shall meet

1907
01:11:23,430 --> 01:11:22,480
and not that one is all wrong or all

1908
01:11:27,270 --> 01:11:23,440
right

1909
01:11:29,510 --> 01:11:27,280
but i certainly veered toward the latter

1910
01:11:32,310 --> 01:11:29,520
i just felt more

1911
01:11:35,669 --> 01:11:32,320
comfortable and honest

1912
01:11:37,350 --> 01:11:35,679
not speculating i also learned early

1913
01:11:39,350 --> 01:11:37,360
to make clear

1914
01:11:40,550 --> 01:11:39,360
as well as i could to the audience i was

1915
01:11:42,950 --> 01:11:40,560
dealing with

1916
01:11:45,590 --> 01:11:42,960
this is what i absolutely know and could

1917
01:11:47,510 --> 01:11:45,600
literally present in a court of law

1918
01:11:49,189 --> 01:11:47,520
this is what i think i absolutely know

1919
01:11:51,189 --> 01:11:49,199
but can't prove

1920
01:11:53,030 --> 01:11:51,199
this is what i strongly suspect but i'm

1921
01:11:54,550 --> 01:11:53,040
not sure of

1922
01:11:56,550 --> 01:11:54,560
this is what

1923
01:11:58,070 --> 01:11:56,560
i think may be going on but i hope isn't

1924
01:12:00,149 --> 01:11:58,080
going on

1925
01:12:01,189 --> 01:12:00,159
and parsing everything

1926
01:12:05,350 --> 01:12:01,199
which

1927
01:12:08,550 --> 01:12:05,360
irritated people on occasion and

1928
01:12:10,390 --> 01:12:08,560
it wasn't uncommon in a call-in show

1929
01:12:11,669 --> 01:12:10,400
for somebody especially they had a bit

1930
01:12:13,189 --> 01:12:11,679
of an attitude

1931
01:12:14,470 --> 01:12:13,199
you know you're famous enough to be on

1932
01:12:15,990 --> 01:12:14,480
the radio and you've spoken at

1933
01:12:17,990 --> 01:12:16,000
conferences and you're supposed to be an

1934
01:12:19,750 --> 01:12:18,000
authority on this how come you just

1935
01:12:23,189 --> 01:12:19,760
don't know yeah

1936
01:12:25,189 --> 01:12:23,199
well that's just the way it is also um

1937
01:12:28,310 --> 01:12:25,199
in deploying language is something i

1938
01:12:30,630 --> 01:12:28,320
still resent is when somebody

1939
01:12:32,790 --> 01:12:30,640
rather than say this is the conclusion

1940
01:12:34,070 --> 01:12:32,800
that i have come to and i'm convinced is

1941
01:12:36,550 --> 01:12:34,080
real

1942
01:12:38,630 --> 01:12:36,560
this is what is happening

1943
01:12:41,669 --> 01:12:38,640
my studies have shown me

1944
01:12:42,870 --> 01:12:41,679
that this is what's going on

1945
01:12:43,669 --> 01:12:42,880
um

1946
01:12:45,030 --> 01:12:43,679
i

1947
01:12:50,070 --> 01:12:45,040
know

1948
01:12:52,390 --> 01:12:50,080
that this is the way it is as opposed to

1949
01:12:53,590 --> 01:12:52,400
this is

1950
01:12:56,550 --> 01:12:53,600
once

1951
01:12:58,790 --> 01:12:56,560
you say that something is

1952
01:13:02,390 --> 01:12:58,800
and that you know it is

1953
01:13:03,590 --> 01:13:02,400
in an area of study where

1954
01:13:05,990 --> 01:13:03,600
there's no

1955
01:13:08,870 --> 01:13:06,000
definitive proving or disproving

1956
01:13:12,390 --> 01:13:08,880
i don't have a carburetor or a spark

1957
01:13:14,790 --> 01:13:12,400
plug from or the equivalent from a craft

1958
01:13:18,310 --> 01:13:14,800
i don't have the thumb of a gray alien

1959
01:13:20,709 --> 01:13:18,320
that we can analyze in a laboratory

1960
01:13:23,189 --> 01:13:20,719
but i do

1961
01:13:29,669 --> 01:13:26,950
that i will never say what is

1962
01:13:32,149 --> 01:13:29,679
just because i think it is or just

1963
01:13:34,070 --> 01:13:32,159
because i feel it is i will make it

1964
01:13:37,189 --> 01:13:34,080
clear with language

1965
01:13:39,430 --> 01:13:37,199
that that's as good as it gets for me

1966
01:13:41,510 --> 01:13:39,440
and some people don't do that and then

1967
01:13:42,550 --> 01:13:41,520
what happens is there are people who are

1968
01:13:45,830 --> 01:13:42,560
looking

1969
01:13:46,950 --> 01:13:45,840
for the answer that you say you're

1970
01:13:48,630 --> 01:13:46,960
providing

1971
01:13:49,990 --> 01:13:48,640
so they become your followers and

1972
01:13:50,790 --> 01:13:50,000
supporters

1973
01:13:54,390 --> 01:13:50,800
and

1974
01:13:57,030 --> 01:13:54,400
if enough people begin to sign on

1975
01:13:59,430 --> 01:13:57,040
you develop a following that can

1976
01:14:00,470 --> 01:13:59,440
it's almost

1977
01:14:03,510 --> 01:14:00,480
the same

1978
01:14:04,550 --> 01:14:03,520
as religion in that it is absolute

1979
01:14:06,870 --> 01:14:04,560
belief

1980
01:14:08,550 --> 01:14:06,880
based on absolute faith

1981
01:14:10,870 --> 01:14:08,560
based on

1982
01:14:12,390 --> 01:14:10,880
the figure in the work that has put the

1983
01:14:14,229 --> 01:14:12,400
work forward

1984
01:14:16,630 --> 01:14:14,239
and you become a follower has the

1985
01:14:18,709 --> 01:14:16,640
potential of being a cult or operating

1986
01:14:21,030 --> 01:14:18,719
in a cult-like manner

1987
01:14:22,790 --> 01:14:21,040
as opposed to being

1988
01:14:25,110 --> 01:14:22,800
an individual

1989
01:14:27,430 --> 01:14:25,120
or even a representative

1990
01:14:29,030 --> 01:14:27,440
or a member of an organization that's

1991
01:14:30,390 --> 01:14:29,040
established

1992
01:14:32,790 --> 01:14:30,400
and making clear that you are not

1993
01:14:34,310 --> 01:14:32,800
speaking for that organization but you

1994
01:14:36,870 --> 01:14:34,320
know i have the benefit of a training

1995
01:14:38,390 --> 01:14:36,880
with this group or with networking with

1996
01:14:41,270 --> 01:14:38,400
many other people who are seriously

1997
01:14:47,350 --> 01:14:44,790
then we come into the digital era

1998
01:14:48,550 --> 01:14:47,360
and the advent of this thing called the

1999
01:14:50,870 --> 01:14:48,560
internet

2000
01:14:52,550 --> 01:14:50,880
which i am still

2001
01:14:54,550 --> 01:14:52,560
completely

2002
01:14:57,030 --> 01:14:54,560
dumbfounded by

2003
01:14:59,430 --> 01:14:57,040
you know they talk about

2004
01:15:02,390 --> 01:14:59,440
a thousand monkeys at a thousand

2005
01:15:04,070 --> 01:15:02,400
typewriters typing for a thousand years

2006
01:15:05,350 --> 01:15:04,080
and just by the law of averages sooner

2007
01:15:07,430 --> 01:15:05,360
or later one of them is going to pop out

2008
01:15:09,430 --> 01:15:07,440
the script to hamlet

2009
01:15:11,189 --> 01:15:09,440
maybe yes maybe no

2010
01:15:13,830 --> 01:15:11,199
but

2011
01:15:15,189 --> 01:15:13,840
the randomness of the universe suggests

2012
01:15:17,430 --> 01:15:15,199
that

2013
01:15:18,790 --> 01:15:17,440
things may be a certain way when maybe

2014
01:15:20,630 --> 01:15:18,800
they're not

2015
01:15:21,750 --> 01:15:20,640
and

2016
01:15:24,550 --> 01:15:21,760
these

2017
01:15:26,950 --> 01:15:24,560
absolute statements

2018
01:15:28,470 --> 01:15:26,960
are almost always incorrect and almost

2019
01:15:30,630 --> 01:15:28,480
always misleading

2020
01:15:32,310 --> 01:15:30,640
and always polarizing

2021
01:15:35,110 --> 01:15:32,320
a well-known figure in the field some

2022
01:15:36,790 --> 01:15:35,120
years ago there he gave a number 57

2023
01:15:39,189 --> 01:15:36,800
whatever it was

2024
01:15:43,110 --> 01:15:39,199
this many alien races are visiting this

2025
01:15:52,470 --> 01:15:45,189
you

2026
01:15:55,590 --> 01:15:52,480
the intelligence community and let's

2027
01:15:57,830 --> 01:15:55,600
even go further let's say that by some

2028
01:15:59,990 --> 01:15:57,840
quirk of magic you are the president of

2029
01:16:02,310 --> 01:16:00,000
the united states the head of the nsa

2030
01:16:04,630 --> 01:16:02,320
that of every intelligence community in

2031
01:16:06,310 --> 01:16:04,640
every country in the world and just make

2032
01:16:09,430 --> 01:16:06,320
it interesting throw in the supreme

2033
01:16:11,430 --> 01:16:09,440
heads of two dozen alien races how can

2034
01:16:14,229 --> 01:16:11,440
you say absolutely

2035
01:16:16,709 --> 01:16:14,239
that it's not 56 or 58.

2036
01:16:18,870 --> 01:16:16,719
by saying that number

2037
01:16:20,630 --> 01:16:18,880
you are doing tremendous damage

2038
01:16:21,430 --> 01:16:20,640
to the work others of us are trying to

2039
01:16:23,030 --> 01:16:21,440
do

2040
01:16:25,669 --> 01:16:23,040
you could say

2041
01:16:29,110 --> 01:16:25,679
my research and findings have made me

2042
01:16:30,950 --> 01:16:29,120
conclude that this is it as opposed to

2043
01:16:33,510 --> 01:16:30,960
this is it

2044
01:16:35,350 --> 01:16:33,520
same person at one point actually said

2045
01:16:37,030 --> 01:16:35,360
all aliens are good

2046
01:16:38,229 --> 01:16:37,040
and once again i thought those same two

2047
01:16:41,590 --> 01:16:38,239
words

2048
01:16:43,270 --> 01:16:41,600
how can you know that as an absolute

2049
01:16:45,830 --> 01:16:43,280
it's you can't

2050
01:16:48,310 --> 01:16:45,840
and so you've got an attention

2051
01:16:49,990 --> 01:16:48,320
and everybody that wants to believe that

2052
01:16:53,590 --> 01:16:50,000
and who wouldn't

2053
01:16:55,669 --> 01:16:53,600
is now potentially signed on to be a fan

2054
01:16:58,070 --> 01:16:55,679
uh purchaser of your books an attender

2055
01:17:00,870 --> 01:16:58,080
of your conferences uh your speaking

2056
01:17:02,550 --> 01:17:00,880
engagements um i'm gonna listen to you

2057
01:17:04,790 --> 01:17:02,560
when you're interviewed on radio and

2058
01:17:05,669 --> 01:17:04,800
watch you on tv

2059
01:17:14,950 --> 01:17:05,679
i

2060
01:17:17,590 --> 01:17:14,960
and

2061
01:17:19,510 --> 01:17:17,600
i have this wonderful mantra i work with

2062
01:17:20,709 --> 01:17:19,520
in my mind that i ascribe to a mafia

2063
01:17:22,550 --> 01:17:20,719
head man

2064
01:17:24,709 --> 01:17:22,560
before he shoots you in the back of head

2065
01:17:26,470 --> 01:17:24,719
twice with the silence 22

2066
01:17:29,669 --> 01:17:26,480
and the last thing he says is it's not

2067
01:17:31,590 --> 01:17:29,679
nothing personal it's just business

2068
01:17:33,430 --> 01:17:31,600
yeah

2069
01:17:35,510 --> 01:17:33,440
thanks

2070
01:17:38,149 --> 01:17:35,520
um

2071
01:17:40,070 --> 01:17:38,159
we do our best to do our best

2072
01:17:41,430 --> 01:17:40,080
then there are those people who

2073
01:17:43,110 --> 01:17:41,440
they're pretty full of themselves and

2074
01:17:45,110 --> 01:17:43,120
more power to them

2075
01:17:46,709 --> 01:17:45,120
but they like

2076
01:17:48,310 --> 01:17:46,719
the power and the attention nothing

2077
01:17:49,430 --> 01:17:48,320
wrong with that

2078
01:17:52,390 --> 01:17:49,440
but

2079
01:17:54,550 --> 01:17:52,400
it then becomes a game of one upmanship

2080
01:17:56,550 --> 01:17:54,560
and i've got this new lead i can't tell

2081
01:17:58,229 --> 01:17:56,560
you where it comes from but

2082
01:17:59,669 --> 01:17:58,239
here's this outrageous allegation that

2083
01:18:01,430 --> 01:17:59,679
i'm sure is true

2084
01:18:02,950 --> 01:18:01,440
and if you don't like it then you're

2085
01:18:05,270 --> 01:18:02,960
part of the problem

2086
01:18:06,630 --> 01:18:05,280
i once actually heard uh william cooper

2087
01:18:09,030 --> 01:18:06,640
speak

2088
01:18:11,110 --> 01:18:09,040
um who for me is kind of one of the

2089
01:18:15,030 --> 01:18:11,120
godfathers of

2090
01:18:17,350 --> 01:18:15,040
conspiracies and for me somebody who

2091
01:18:19,590 --> 01:18:17,360
was highly responsible and took a

2092
01:18:22,709 --> 01:18:19,600
certain amount of truth and mixed it

2093
01:18:23,750 --> 01:18:22,719
with legend conjecture paranoia

2094
01:18:26,470 --> 01:18:23,760
myth

2095
01:18:28,149 --> 01:18:26,480
um self-aggrandizement and actually say

2096
01:18:30,229 --> 01:18:28,159
to an audience who he had been really

2097
01:18:32,790 --> 01:18:30,239
browbeating

2098
01:18:35,110 --> 01:18:32,800
after explaining his latest conspiracy

2099
01:18:36,950 --> 01:18:35,120
theory if you do not believe every word

2100
01:18:39,030 --> 01:18:36,960
i've just said you are part of the

2101
01:18:40,870 --> 01:18:39,040
problem i remember people walking out of

2102
01:18:43,510 --> 01:18:40,880
there completely silent and many of them

2103
01:18:44,550 --> 01:18:43,520
very sheepishly and me thinking

2104
01:18:46,790 --> 01:18:44,560
this man

2105
01:18:48,790 --> 01:18:46,800
potentially is certain danger to people

2106
01:18:50,709 --> 01:18:48,800
very demagogic

2107
01:18:51,990 --> 01:18:50,719
other people feel that he was murdered

2108
01:18:54,870 --> 01:18:52,000
by the man

2109
01:18:56,390 --> 01:18:54,880
and not simply shot dead after shooting

2110
01:18:59,270 --> 01:18:56,400
a a

2111
01:19:00,790 --> 01:18:59,280
duly appointed law officer serving

2112
01:19:03,430 --> 01:19:00,800
a summons

2113
01:19:04,870 --> 01:19:03,440
be that as it may it has mutated to the

2114
01:19:07,590 --> 01:19:04,880
point where

2115
01:19:09,590 --> 01:19:07,600
now in the world

2116
01:19:12,149 --> 01:19:09,600
of social networking

2117
01:19:15,270 --> 01:19:12,159
and the internet and the ability

2118
01:19:16,870 --> 01:19:15,280
to manipulate images to any degree

2119
01:19:18,709 --> 01:19:16,880
where

2120
01:19:21,030 --> 01:19:18,719
it's hard to know sometimes what to

2121
01:19:23,350 --> 01:19:21,040
trust and who to trust

2122
01:19:25,910 --> 01:19:23,360
there are people

2123
01:19:27,350 --> 01:19:25,920
out there who i'm really wasn't aware of

2124
01:19:28,550 --> 01:19:27,360
beforehand

2125
01:19:31,189 --> 01:19:28,560
who

2126
01:19:32,310 --> 01:19:31,199
as a group manifest you know i'm living

2127
01:19:34,149 --> 01:19:32,320
this

2128
01:19:35,350 --> 01:19:34,159
isolated little life i've always felt

2129
01:19:37,750 --> 01:19:35,360
ineffectual

2130
01:19:39,830 --> 01:19:37,760
nobody listens to me but here in the

2131
01:19:42,550 --> 01:19:39,840
anonymousness of the internet

2132
01:19:44,630 --> 01:19:42,560
i can build myself up create this

2133
01:19:46,310 --> 01:19:44,640
alternate persona

2134
01:19:47,910 --> 01:19:46,320
and because i'm good at this thing

2135
01:19:50,870 --> 01:19:47,920
called photoshop

2136
01:19:53,669 --> 01:19:50,880
look at this great image i have of a ufo

2137
01:19:54,630 --> 01:19:53,679
or this footage often never accompanied

2138
01:19:56,149 --> 01:19:54,640
by

2139
01:19:57,110 --> 01:19:56,159
the witness

2140
01:19:59,990 --> 01:19:57,120
name

2141
01:20:01,669 --> 01:20:00,000
the location the time of day what kind

2142
01:20:03,350 --> 01:20:01,679
of camera was used

2143
01:20:06,550 --> 01:20:03,360
certainly no photo

2144
01:20:08,390 --> 01:20:06,560
analysis applied to the image or to the

2145
01:20:10,390 --> 01:20:08,400
moving footage

2146
01:20:12,390 --> 01:20:10,400
and at the same time

2147
01:20:14,709 --> 01:20:12,400
some people

2148
01:20:16,950 --> 01:20:14,719
what functions as evidence

2149
01:20:19,669 --> 01:20:16,960
and

2150
01:20:22,629 --> 01:20:19,679
corroborating material to some people

2151
01:20:25,510 --> 01:20:22,639
is not up to the level of other people

2152
01:20:27,270 --> 01:20:25,520
and so there is a generation of what i

2153
01:20:28,950 --> 01:20:27,280
would call orphan documents that are

2154
01:20:31,430 --> 01:20:28,960
sometimes put forward

2155
01:20:33,669 --> 01:20:31,440
this is this above top secret league

2156
01:20:35,350 --> 01:20:33,679
talk you know document it's got the

2157
01:20:37,430 --> 01:20:35,360
right typewriter face

2158
01:20:38,950 --> 01:20:37,440
um it's got rubber stamps on it and

2159
01:20:41,750 --> 01:20:38,960
things and it came

2160
01:20:43,830 --> 01:20:41,760
to somebody i know through and contacted

2161
01:20:46,390 --> 01:20:43,840
deep in the pentagon and what have you

2162
01:20:48,310 --> 01:20:46,400
and i know it's serious and you may not

2163
01:20:51,189 --> 01:20:48,320
as opposed to

2164
01:20:53,430 --> 01:20:51,199
a legitimately declassified

2165
01:20:54,870 --> 01:20:53,440
historically verifiable

2166
01:20:55,950 --> 01:20:54,880
document

2167
01:20:58,070 --> 01:20:55,960
either

2168
01:21:00,550 --> 01:20:58,080
declassified before the freedom of

2169
01:21:02,790 --> 01:21:00,560
information act act which came in under

2170
01:21:05,350 --> 01:21:02,800
carter a great law

2171
01:21:06,550 --> 01:21:05,360
that you know had a home in the national

2172
01:21:08,950 --> 01:21:06,560
archives

2173
01:21:10,550 --> 01:21:08,960
not that something can't be you know

2174
01:21:12,070 --> 01:21:10,560
then the counter-argument of well

2175
01:21:14,149 --> 01:21:12,080
somebody typed that up and got it into

2176
01:21:15,030 --> 01:21:14,159
the archives etc

2177
01:21:16,550 --> 01:21:15,040
but

2178
01:21:18,790 --> 01:21:16,560
it has

2179
01:21:20,390 --> 01:21:18,800
a romance to it you know

2180
01:21:22,149 --> 01:21:20,400
this somebody leaked this at you know

2181
01:21:24,709 --> 01:21:22,159
great great uh

2182
01:21:26,149 --> 01:21:24,719
risk to their own personal safety

2183
01:21:27,350 --> 01:21:26,159
and their family's

2184
01:21:29,270 --> 01:21:27,360
peace of mind

2185
01:21:31,990 --> 01:21:29,280
and what courage they had in doing it

2186
01:21:33,510 --> 01:21:32,000
and i take it seriously

2187
01:21:34,950 --> 01:21:33,520
the other thing

2188
01:21:37,510 --> 01:21:34,960
is

2189
01:21:39,669 --> 01:21:37,520
what i would call infotainment

2190
01:21:41,030 --> 01:21:39,679
and it is now rampant

2191
01:21:45,350 --> 01:21:41,040
on

2192
01:21:48,390 --> 01:21:45,360
amazing world of

2193
01:21:50,950 --> 01:21:48,400
cable well cable uh of

2194
01:21:52,709 --> 01:21:50,960
all the golden age of television that

2195
01:21:54,950 --> 01:21:52,719
we're in right now

2196
01:21:56,550 --> 01:21:54,960
not that it can be a bad thing in

2197
01:21:58,390 --> 01:21:56,560
certain circumstances we were talking

2198
01:22:01,669 --> 01:21:58,400
the other day about the

2199
01:22:05,030 --> 01:22:01,679
steven spielberg executive produced

2200
01:22:07,510 --> 01:22:05,040
miniseries from about 20 years ago taken

2201
01:22:10,629 --> 01:22:07,520
which is very entertaining

2202
01:22:12,470 --> 01:22:10,639
and is built to a degree on real

2203
01:22:13,590 --> 01:22:12,480
information that we have acquired over

2204
01:22:14,550 --> 01:22:13,600
the years

2205
01:22:16,229 --> 01:22:14,560
about

2206
01:22:17,830 --> 01:22:16,239
the cover-up

2207
01:22:19,270 --> 01:22:17,840
and the world of experiences and

2208
01:22:23,590 --> 01:22:19,280
abductees

2209
01:22:25,830 --> 01:22:23,600
and it's filmed on a huge budget with

2210
01:22:27,110 --> 01:22:25,840
great flourishes of time

2211
01:22:29,510 --> 01:22:27,120
and it's

2212
01:22:32,390 --> 01:22:29,520
it's not meant to be anything more

2213
01:22:35,270 --> 01:22:32,400
than an educational entertainment

2214
01:22:38,550 --> 01:22:35,280
but i remember um before it came out

2215
01:22:41,030 --> 01:22:38,560
having uh been hired as a

2216
01:22:43,430 --> 01:22:41,040
a stringer um a uh

2217
01:22:45,270 --> 01:22:43,440
somebody who was involved in helping to

2218
01:22:46,070 --> 01:22:45,280
promote the series right before it came

2219
01:22:48,709 --> 01:22:46,080
out

2220
01:22:51,510 --> 01:22:48,719
for the sci-fi channel then owned by nbc

2221
01:22:54,709 --> 01:22:51,520
that part of the event that i created

2222
01:22:56,390 --> 01:22:54,719
was um the three top experts in one way

2223
01:22:58,070 --> 01:22:56,400
or another at

2224
01:23:00,950 --> 01:22:58,080
certainly three of the top in the world

2225
01:23:03,110 --> 01:23:00,960
on abduction uh bud hopkins dr david

2226
01:23:06,629 --> 01:23:03,120
jacobs and dr john mack

2227
01:23:08,550 --> 01:23:06,639
being interviewed by morton um blanking

2228
01:23:12,149 --> 01:23:08,560
on his last name good old-fashioned

2229
01:23:13,350 --> 01:23:12,159
newsman morton dean who i remember first

2230
01:23:15,350 --> 01:23:13,360
when i was young

2231
01:23:17,910 --> 01:23:15,360
on the ground in vietnam

2232
01:23:19,910 --> 01:23:17,920
and who worked for fox at a time npr

2233
01:23:22,950 --> 01:23:19,920
other stations

2234
01:23:25,510 --> 01:23:22,960
and then the president or the ceo of

2235
01:23:27,270 --> 01:23:25,520
sci-fi getting up there a very

2236
01:23:30,390 --> 01:23:27,280
obviously bright

2237
01:23:32,870 --> 01:23:30,400
and sharp businesswoman bonnie something

2238
01:23:35,669 --> 01:23:32,880
talking about these stations

2239
01:23:36,790 --> 01:23:35,679
the evolution of executives business

2240
01:23:38,950 --> 01:23:36,800
people

2241
01:23:40,950 --> 01:23:38,960
as they negotiated with

2242
01:23:42,629 --> 01:23:40,960
the spielberg organization

2243
01:23:44,390 --> 01:23:42,639
and then started to look at the footage

2244
01:23:46,550 --> 01:23:44,400
and then begin to

2245
01:23:49,030 --> 01:23:46,560
see the material that was really

2246
01:23:51,830 --> 01:23:49,040
in the real world about it and saying

2247
01:23:54,870 --> 01:23:51,840
for me the biggest revelation was

2248
01:23:57,669 --> 01:23:54,880
my mandate here my main mandate is um

2249
01:23:59,830 --> 01:23:57,679
this is a business i'm here to provide

2250
01:24:01,669 --> 01:23:59,840
what i hope is quality entertainment and

2251
01:24:03,910 --> 01:24:01,679
good documentaries

2252
01:24:06,149 --> 01:24:03,920
for the public and make money for our

2253
01:24:08,470 --> 01:24:06,159
network and our stockholders

2254
01:24:11,030 --> 01:24:08,480
but i have to tell you um i have come to

2255
01:24:13,910 --> 01:24:11,040
absolutely understand that this ufo

2256
01:24:17,830 --> 01:24:13,920
doctor abduction phenomena is real

2257
01:24:21,669 --> 01:24:17,840
it's real it's happening to real people

2258
01:24:23,750 --> 01:24:21,679
and i hope more than anything that our

2259
01:24:26,709 --> 01:24:23,760
20-hour mini-series here

2260
01:24:28,870 --> 01:24:26,719
will introduce the subject to people in

2261
01:24:30,550 --> 01:24:28,880
an interesting and entertaining enough

2262
01:24:33,270 --> 01:24:30,560
way

2263
01:24:36,149 --> 01:24:33,280
but that what's really behind it is

2264
01:24:37,990 --> 01:24:36,159
you need to know this this is happening

2265
01:24:39,669 --> 01:24:38,000
anyway um

2266
01:24:42,390 --> 01:24:39,679
what's changed

2267
01:24:44,470 --> 01:24:42,400
well the fact that now

2268
01:24:47,110 --> 01:24:44,480
anybody with an interest

2269
01:24:48,310 --> 01:24:47,120
can jump into the entire world that's

2270
01:24:49,750 --> 01:24:48,320
open to us

2271
01:24:51,350 --> 01:24:49,760
on the internet

2272
01:24:53,270 --> 01:24:51,360
they can access

2273
01:24:54,950 --> 01:24:53,280
a thousand different sources without

2274
01:24:56,390 --> 01:24:54,960
leaving their chair

2275
01:24:57,669 --> 01:24:56,400
they don't have to

2276
01:25:00,070 --> 01:24:57,679
build a

2277
01:25:01,830 --> 01:25:00,080
physical library if they don't want to

2278
01:25:04,390 --> 01:25:01,840
they can immediately network with people

2279
01:25:06,390 --> 01:25:04,400
all over the world on the subject

2280
01:25:08,629 --> 01:25:06,400
they can establish themselves as an

2281
01:25:11,110 --> 01:25:08,639
information source themselves

2282
01:25:13,669 --> 01:25:11,120
and either do it in a way that i am an

2283
01:25:16,470 --> 01:25:13,679
involved researcher investigator

2284
01:25:18,229 --> 01:25:16,480
and you've heard me you know on on

2285
01:25:19,750 --> 01:25:18,239
different podcasts and things and this

2286
01:25:20,550 --> 01:25:19,760
is what i have to say

2287
01:25:23,669 --> 01:25:20,560
or

2288
01:25:24,629 --> 01:25:23,679
i'm going to have my own podcast a radio

2289
01:25:27,590 --> 01:25:24,639
show

2290
01:25:29,110 --> 01:25:27,600
and i'm automatically a personality in

2291
01:25:31,910 --> 01:25:29,120
the work

2292
01:25:34,390 --> 01:25:31,920
or then there's another phenomena

2293
01:25:36,709 --> 01:25:34,400
i have come to call it the oswald

2294
01:25:39,110 --> 01:25:36,719
phenomena in that

2295
01:25:41,270 --> 01:25:39,120
allegorically or actually

2296
01:25:43,990 --> 01:25:41,280
if you want to become really well known

2297
01:25:45,590 --> 01:25:44,000
in this country really fast

2298
01:25:48,070 --> 01:25:45,600
one of the best ways to do it is to

2299
01:25:50,550 --> 01:25:48,080
shoot somebody famous

2300
01:25:52,550 --> 01:25:50,560
again actually or allegorically you can

2301
01:25:55,110 --> 01:25:52,560
come out of nowhere

2302
01:25:57,430 --> 01:25:55,120
and be a nobody and accuse of somebody

2303
01:26:00,870 --> 01:25:57,440
who has an established record

2304
01:26:02,950 --> 01:26:00,880
as somebody who is involved

2305
01:26:04,950 --> 01:26:02,960
especially if they are high visibility

2306
01:26:05,910 --> 01:26:04,960
experience or abductee and say no you're

2307
01:26:08,149 --> 01:26:05,920
a liar

2308
01:26:10,149 --> 01:26:08,159
and here's my leg's evidence to prove it

2309
01:26:11,910 --> 01:26:10,159
when there really is no evidence

2310
01:26:12,950 --> 01:26:11,920
but most of the people are not going to

2311
01:26:14,950 --> 01:26:12,960
check

2312
01:26:16,629 --> 01:26:14,960
your evidence for accuracy it's just oh

2313
01:26:18,149 --> 01:26:16,639
boy another sporting event

2314
01:26:20,229 --> 01:26:18,159
you know somebody's going to take down

2315
01:26:21,910 --> 01:26:20,239
that big guy and

2316
01:26:24,870 --> 01:26:21,920
you know it's the roman coliseum on a

2317
01:26:28,149 --> 01:26:24,880
certain level it's that mentality

2318
01:26:30,310 --> 01:26:28,159
and if they're able to hold on

2319
01:26:31,430 --> 01:26:30,320
they become a player in the work even if

2320
01:26:32,950 --> 01:26:31,440
they're just

2321
01:26:35,189 --> 01:26:32,960
discontinued

2322
01:26:37,910 --> 01:26:35,199
um last year there was an extraordinary

2323
01:26:40,149 --> 01:26:37,920
series of attacks on the veracity of

2324
01:26:42,390 --> 01:26:40,159
travis walton's claim a very well-known

2325
01:26:44,229 --> 01:26:42,400
advocacy to put it mildly

2326
01:26:46,629 --> 01:26:44,239
and as far as i'm concerned having

2327
01:26:49,270 --> 01:26:46,639
looked into it to a great degree

2328
01:26:51,430 --> 01:26:49,280
it was built on nothing it was built on

2329
01:26:53,350 --> 01:26:51,440
a complete misunderstanding

2330
01:26:55,590 --> 01:26:53,360
of the fact that

2331
01:26:56,870 --> 01:26:55,600
it was impossible for their allegations

2332
01:27:00,709 --> 01:26:56,880
to have happened

2333
01:27:01,910 --> 01:27:00,719
because the light source they claimed

2334
01:27:02,950 --> 01:27:01,920
was

2335
01:27:05,189 --> 01:27:02,960
not

2336
01:27:07,030 --> 01:27:05,199
there it was

2337
01:27:09,430 --> 01:27:07,040
almost four miles away

2338
01:27:11,910 --> 01:27:09,440
and in order to have even seen it you

2339
01:27:15,030 --> 01:27:11,920
couldn't from there because there was a

2340
01:27:17,270 --> 01:27:15,040
rise in the terrain there and there was

2341
01:27:21,110 --> 01:27:17,280
no way to coordinate

2342
01:27:23,510 --> 01:27:21,120
the lie if you were going to try to hoax

2343
01:27:26,550 --> 01:27:23,520
your colleagues

2344
01:27:28,390 --> 01:27:26,560
but for a period of time several months

2345
01:27:30,149 --> 01:27:28,400
the three or four individuals putting

2346
01:27:32,229 --> 01:27:30,159
this forward

2347
01:27:35,510 --> 01:27:32,239
were players they were on the radio they

2348
01:27:37,110 --> 01:27:35,520
were doing podcasts their voice was one

2349
01:27:38,950 --> 01:27:37,120
people were listening to

2350
01:27:40,709 --> 01:27:38,960
there's a break in the routine you know

2351
01:27:42,870 --> 01:27:40,719
who doesn't like a good argument as long

2352
01:27:44,070 --> 01:27:42,880
as you're got a nice seat

2353
01:27:45,669 --> 01:27:44,080
away from it

2354
01:27:47,270 --> 01:27:45,679
and they were completely disproven as

2355
01:27:49,910 --> 01:27:47,280
far as i'm concerned

2356
01:27:53,430 --> 01:27:49,920
and as far as i've seen or heard they've

2357
01:27:55,030 --> 01:27:53,440
completely disappeared from the dialogue

2358
01:27:57,430 --> 01:27:55,040
it's the way it is

2359
01:28:01,110 --> 01:27:57,440
when i started i had a sense of

2360
01:28:03,350 --> 01:28:01,120
something that i am now sure of which is

2361
01:28:06,149 --> 01:28:03,360
no matter how much money

2362
01:28:07,270 --> 01:28:06,159
or assets or assistance

2363
01:28:09,590 --> 01:28:07,280
uh

2364
01:28:13,350 --> 01:28:09,600
or access to

2365
01:28:16,390 --> 01:28:13,360
laboratories tools um libraries

2366
01:28:18,390 --> 01:28:16,400
archives colleagues that you have

2367
01:28:19,350 --> 01:28:18,400
your best research tools are going to

2368
01:28:21,750 --> 01:28:19,360
remain

2369
01:28:23,350 --> 01:28:21,760
critical thinking

2370
01:28:25,590 --> 01:28:23,360
deductive reasoning

2371
01:28:26,870 --> 01:28:25,600
and common sense

2372
01:28:28,709 --> 01:28:26,880
and

2373
01:28:31,669 --> 01:28:28,719
you can be wrong

2374
01:28:33,669 --> 01:28:31,679
but if you stay with those things you've

2375
01:28:36,390 --> 01:28:33,679
got a good grounding

2376
01:28:37,990 --> 01:28:36,400
one of my inspirations in the work is a

2377
01:28:40,470 --> 01:28:38,000
fictional character

2378
01:28:43,590 --> 01:28:40,480
and who i was introduced to probably by

2379
01:28:44,790 --> 01:28:43,600
the age of 10 to a series of old british

2380
01:28:47,430 --> 01:28:44,800
movies

2381
01:28:49,270 --> 01:28:47,440
uh about the legendary arthur conan

2382
01:28:50,870 --> 01:28:49,280
doyle detective um

2383
01:28:52,870 --> 01:28:50,880
sherlock holmes

2384
01:28:54,709 --> 01:28:52,880
these were the basil rathbone nigel

2385
01:28:56,790 --> 01:28:54,719
bruce movies the holmes character has

2386
01:28:59,110 --> 01:28:56,800
been played by a number of actors even

2387
01:29:02,229 --> 01:28:59,120
going back to i think silent films

2388
01:29:04,470 --> 01:29:02,239
and about 30 years ago pbs had a home

2389
01:29:06,149 --> 01:29:04,480
series with the wonderful late actor

2390
01:29:08,550 --> 01:29:06,159
jeremy brett

2391
01:29:10,149 --> 01:29:08,560
one of the best homes that we've seen

2392
01:29:11,030 --> 01:29:10,159
and

2393
01:29:13,189 --> 01:29:11,040
i

2394
01:29:15,270 --> 01:29:13,199
really enjoyed the character and that

2395
01:29:17,189 --> 01:29:15,280
got me as a kid to start to read arthur

2396
01:29:19,110 --> 01:29:17,199
conan doyle's books

2397
01:29:21,189 --> 01:29:19,120
and then move on

2398
01:29:22,229 --> 01:29:21,199
but then have that stuff come back later

2399
01:29:24,070 --> 01:29:22,239
and

2400
01:29:26,470 --> 01:29:24,080
with the holmesian character one of the

2401
01:29:27,910 --> 01:29:26,480
things of deductive reasoning was

2402
01:29:30,229 --> 01:29:27,920
if you're presented with a genuine

2403
01:29:32,310 --> 01:29:30,239
mystery

2404
01:29:34,550 --> 01:29:32,320
you first look at

2405
01:29:36,149 --> 01:29:34,560
the most

2406
01:29:37,590 --> 01:29:36,159
possible

2407
01:29:38,950 --> 01:29:37,600
mundane

2408
01:29:40,390 --> 01:29:38,960
boring

2409
01:29:43,030 --> 01:29:40,400
everyday

2410
01:29:45,030 --> 01:29:43,040
rationalist explanations possible for

2411
01:29:47,189 --> 01:29:45,040
whatever the mystery is

2412
01:29:48,229 --> 01:29:47,199
if none of them pan out

2413
01:29:50,870 --> 01:29:48,239
you then

2414
01:29:53,590 --> 01:29:50,880
don't jump to the conclusion you take

2415
01:29:55,910 --> 01:29:53,600
one step to the second most

2416
01:29:57,910 --> 01:29:55,920
boring mundane possibilities and you

2417
01:29:59,669 --> 01:29:57,920
keep up that process

2418
01:30:02,070 --> 01:29:59,679
until you've exhausted it

2419
01:30:05,590 --> 01:30:02,080
now this is

2420
01:30:09,750 --> 01:30:08,390
it's not sexy it's not exotic however if

2421
01:30:12,470 --> 01:30:09,760
you've gotten to that point and you

2422
01:30:13,910 --> 01:30:12,480
haven't gotten any answers that

2423
01:30:16,070 --> 01:30:13,920
answer the questions

2424
01:30:19,910 --> 01:30:16,080
then things get really interesting

2425
01:30:21,030 --> 01:30:19,920
and you pursue it at another level

2426
01:30:23,590 --> 01:30:21,040
where

2427
01:30:25,030 --> 01:30:23,600
for many people in the field

2428
01:30:27,030 --> 01:30:25,040
especially in this age of short

2429
01:30:30,149 --> 01:30:27,040
attention span theater

2430
01:30:32,390 --> 01:30:30,159
and again wanting to feel special

2431
01:30:35,990 --> 01:30:32,400
and wanting to shine because there's so

2432
01:30:40,229 --> 01:30:38,390
to jump to the conclusion

2433
01:30:42,390 --> 01:30:40,239
and look at it from there

2434
01:30:45,510 --> 01:30:42,400
possibly having missed

2435
01:30:47,990 --> 01:30:45,520
a more rational

2436
01:30:50,070 --> 01:30:48,000
everyday explanation

2437
01:30:52,550 --> 01:30:50,080
that you could care less about and you

2438
01:30:54,629 --> 01:30:52,560
don't want it to be you want this to be

2439
01:30:56,149 --> 01:30:54,639
something special and you know truly

2440
01:30:57,910 --> 01:30:56,159
paranormal

2441
01:31:00,830 --> 01:30:57,920
so

2442
01:31:02,390 --> 01:31:00,840
for me

2443
01:31:05,030 --> 01:31:02,400
um

2444
01:31:07,510 --> 01:31:05,040
there is now a whole new generation

2445
01:31:09,350 --> 01:31:07,520
of people in the work and

2446
01:31:11,270 --> 01:31:09,360
probably starting from not that long

2447
01:31:12,870 --> 01:31:11,280
before we met and started our

2448
01:31:14,790 --> 01:31:12,880
relationship

2449
01:31:16,950 --> 01:31:14,800
i was really wondering along with the

2450
01:31:18,310 --> 01:31:16,960
number of colleagues

2451
01:31:19,669 --> 01:31:18,320
where that next generation is going to

2452
01:31:22,870 --> 01:31:19,679
come from

2453
01:31:25,590 --> 01:31:22,880
the way i saw it was

2454
01:31:27,750 --> 01:31:25,600
30-somethings and 20-somethings

2455
01:31:29,270 --> 01:31:27,760
had enough on their plate

2456
01:31:33,110 --> 01:31:29,280
with

2457
01:31:35,350 --> 01:31:33,120
just this inundation of information

2458
01:31:37,590 --> 01:31:35,360
you know the digital world is something

2459
01:31:40,310 --> 01:31:37,600
i couldn't have imagined at that age

2460
01:31:43,030 --> 01:31:40,320
not to mention just wanting

2461
01:31:45,030 --> 01:31:43,040
to find some security in the world

2462
01:31:51,189 --> 01:31:45,040
connect with somebody special

2463
01:31:55,830 --> 01:31:53,669
for me the world of entertainment when i

2464
01:31:58,390 --> 01:31:55,840
was in my 20s

2465
01:32:00,950 --> 01:31:58,400
it was you know i had my favorite groups

2466
01:32:01,990 --> 01:32:00,960
and singers uh my favorite actors and

2467
01:32:03,830 --> 01:32:02,000
plays

2468
01:32:06,790 --> 01:32:03,840
i would go to concerts i would listen to

2469
01:32:07,990 --> 01:32:06,800
records i would go to the theater um

2470
01:32:10,390 --> 01:32:08,000
now

2471
01:32:11,590 --> 01:32:10,400
in the world of downloading

2472
01:32:17,830 --> 01:32:11,600
and

2473
01:32:21,030 --> 01:32:17,840
it's hard to even imagine a time where

2474
01:32:22,629 --> 01:32:21,040
the concept of a rock and roll band

2475
01:32:24,709 --> 01:32:22,639
being a group of people that were

2476
01:32:28,629 --> 01:32:24,719
actually earning their living playing

2477
01:32:31,189 --> 01:32:28,639
music and becoming famous for becoming

2478
01:32:32,470 --> 01:32:31,199
popular because a lot of people liked it

2479
01:32:34,950 --> 01:32:32,480
um

2480
01:32:37,189 --> 01:32:34,960
was really an outsider thought

2481
01:32:38,629 --> 01:32:37,199
and then i remember this is probably

2482
01:32:41,030 --> 01:32:38,639
still in the late 60s that some

2483
01:32:43,669 --> 01:32:41,040
universities somewhere was offering a

2484
01:32:46,550 --> 01:32:43,679
course on band management

2485
01:32:48,070 --> 01:32:46,560
or the economics of being a professional

2486
01:32:50,310 --> 01:32:48,080
musician

2487
01:32:53,110 --> 01:32:50,320
and i thought that was far out that was

2488
01:32:56,790 --> 01:32:53,120
really amazing

2489
01:32:59,350 --> 01:32:56,800
and the advent of coming out of the

2490
01:33:00,709 --> 01:32:59,360
golden age of rock and roll

2491
01:33:02,070 --> 01:33:00,719
motown

2492
01:33:03,430 --> 01:33:02,080
seoul

2493
01:33:05,110 --> 01:33:03,440
um

2494
01:33:06,470 --> 01:33:05,120
beginnings of metal

2495
01:33:07,590 --> 01:33:06,480
um

2496
01:33:10,950 --> 01:33:07,600
dua

2497
01:33:13,110 --> 01:33:10,960
you know you name it all of a sudden

2498
01:33:15,910 --> 01:33:13,120
things are go through

2499
01:33:18,310 --> 01:33:15,920
the looking glass of the 60s

2500
01:33:21,110 --> 01:33:18,320
and come out the other sides

2501
01:33:23,430 --> 01:33:21,120
heavily influenced in some cases

2502
01:33:24,870 --> 01:33:23,440
by the altered states of consciousness

2503
01:33:26,149 --> 01:33:24,880
that some of these artists had

2504
01:33:27,430 --> 01:33:26,159
experienced

2505
01:33:29,270 --> 01:33:27,440
with the

2506
01:33:31,030 --> 01:33:29,280
use of psychedelics

2507
01:33:32,550 --> 01:33:31,040
myself included

2508
01:33:34,229 --> 01:33:32,560
and

2509
01:33:35,590 --> 01:33:34,239
the excitement

2510
01:33:37,270 --> 01:33:35,600
of

2511
01:33:39,750 --> 01:33:37,280
being a young person

2512
01:33:41,030 --> 01:33:39,760
and all of a sudden there's a new album

2513
01:33:41,990 --> 01:33:41,040
called yesterday and today by the

2514
01:33:43,590 --> 01:33:42,000
beatles

2515
01:33:45,750 --> 01:33:43,600
or rubber soul

2516
01:33:46,950 --> 01:33:45,760
or surrealistic pillow by the jefferson

2517
01:33:49,110 --> 01:33:46,960
airplane

2518
01:33:51,270 --> 01:33:49,120
or the

2519
01:33:52,950 --> 01:33:51,280
the mamas and pompas or

2520
01:33:54,229 --> 01:33:52,960
um the

2521
01:33:55,910 --> 01:33:54,239
first album

2522
01:33:57,270 --> 01:33:55,920
by um

2523
01:33:59,430 --> 01:33:57,280
well you name it

2524
01:34:01,910 --> 01:33:59,440
and each one being a revelation like we

2525
01:34:03,270 --> 01:34:01,920
were a youth culture we were together we

2526
01:34:04,629 --> 01:34:03,280
were going to create something new in

2527
01:34:07,270 --> 01:34:04,639
the world we were going to try and make

2528
01:34:08,790 --> 01:34:07,280
things right um

2529
01:34:10,310 --> 01:34:08,800
you know

2530
01:34:13,270 --> 01:34:10,320
love one another

2531
01:34:15,110 --> 01:34:13,280
literally as well as allegorically

2532
01:34:16,830 --> 01:34:15,120
and then of course the whole thing kind

2533
01:34:19,510 --> 01:34:16,840
of being corrupted

2534
01:34:21,430 --> 01:34:19,520
by well um

2535
01:34:22,870 --> 01:34:21,440
misuse of of drugs

2536
01:34:27,030 --> 01:34:22,880
um

2537
01:34:30,070 --> 01:34:27,040
branding you as you know a

2538
01:34:33,510 --> 01:34:30,080
counterculture and potentially dangerous

2539
01:34:34,870 --> 01:34:33,520
in the nixonian nixonian point of view

2540
01:34:36,070 --> 01:34:34,880
and

2541
01:34:38,550 --> 01:34:36,080
the whole thing

2542
01:34:41,590 --> 01:34:38,560
gently being pressed down

2543
01:34:44,070 --> 01:34:41,600
or being

2544
01:34:45,030 --> 01:34:44,080
integrated into the business system

2545
01:34:47,350 --> 01:34:45,040
um

2546
01:34:49,510 --> 01:34:47,360
if you are somebody who could make a lot

2547
01:34:50,870 --> 01:34:49,520
of money even if your music is somewhat

2548
01:34:52,870 --> 01:34:50,880
mundane

2549
01:34:55,270 --> 01:34:52,880
we're behind you and we will help you

2550
01:34:56,629 --> 01:34:55,280
become famous and rich

2551
01:34:59,669 --> 01:34:56,639
uh

2552
01:35:01,990 --> 01:34:59,679
i think within the world of ufo studies

2553
01:35:03,750 --> 01:35:02,000
there are people who look to

2554
01:35:05,750 --> 01:35:03,760
how can i become

2555
01:35:07,910 --> 01:35:05,760
number one i i want everybody know who i

2556
01:35:08,870 --> 01:35:07,920
am i want to be well known i want to be

2557
01:35:10,790 --> 01:35:08,880
famous

2558
01:35:13,109 --> 01:35:10,800
um i want to be the one

2559
01:35:14,709 --> 01:35:13,119
that presents this amazing piece of

2560
01:35:16,629 --> 01:35:14,719
information

2561
01:35:17,830 --> 01:35:16,639
i'm going to learn to or network with

2562
01:35:20,070 --> 01:35:17,840
filmmakers

2563
01:35:23,830 --> 01:35:20,080
and be part of that way of getting out

2564
01:35:26,629 --> 01:35:23,840
the information i'm going to find a way

2565
01:35:28,709 --> 01:35:26,639
to create a product that people will buy

2566
01:35:31,510 --> 01:35:28,719
and that horrible bugaboo if you make

2567
01:35:34,310 --> 01:35:31,520
money in their work and ufology you know

2568
01:35:37,750 --> 01:35:34,320
i think about some years where i make

2569
01:35:40,629 --> 01:35:37,760
500 or thousand dollars doing this work

2570
01:35:43,189 --> 01:35:40,639
and that i don't have a full-time job

2571
01:35:45,109 --> 01:35:43,199
this is what i do and to have somebody

2572
01:35:48,950 --> 01:35:45,119
say oh you make money at this

2573
01:35:50,790 --> 01:35:48,960
it's like once again you yes i do

2574
01:35:51,910 --> 01:35:50,800
not as much as i would like to keep me

2575
01:35:54,229 --> 01:35:51,920
alive

2576
01:35:57,910 --> 01:35:54,239
but yeah i like to be paid for the work

2577
01:35:59,109 --> 01:35:57,920
that i do and i think i do good work

2578
01:36:00,870 --> 01:35:59,119
but

2579
01:36:03,430 --> 01:36:00,880
you're in it for the money

2580
01:36:06,070 --> 01:36:03,440
is hysterical anybody with rare

2581
01:36:09,109 --> 01:36:06,080
exceptions who has been in the work

2582
01:36:11,590 --> 01:36:09,119
knows that's the case

2583
01:36:13,910 --> 01:36:11,600
so we live in a very different world now

2584
01:36:15,030 --> 01:36:13,920
than we did when i entered it in every

2585
01:36:17,109 --> 01:36:15,040
respect

2586
01:36:19,510 --> 01:36:17,119
but also in the world of ufology and at

2587
01:36:21,910 --> 01:36:19,520
the same time at the core

2588
01:36:24,629 --> 01:36:21,920
are lots of decent

2589
01:36:25,750 --> 01:36:24,639
interested people some of them obsessed

2590
01:36:27,830 --> 01:36:25,760
some of them

2591
01:36:29,270 --> 01:36:27,840
just wishing to advance their own body

2592
01:36:32,550 --> 01:36:29,280
of knowledge

2593
01:36:36,229 --> 01:36:32,560
work in earnest

2594
01:36:38,070 --> 01:36:36,239
and who are serious and take pride in

2595
01:36:39,430 --> 01:36:38,080
the papers they write the broadcasts

2596
01:36:41,990 --> 01:36:39,440
that they do

2597
01:36:44,310 --> 01:36:42,000
and there's another generation coming up

2598
01:36:47,189 --> 01:36:44,320
now of younger people

2599
01:36:49,830 --> 01:36:47,199
who are not ufologists who are not

2600
01:36:50,830 --> 01:36:49,840
serious students of paranormal

2601
01:36:53,189 --> 01:36:50,840
but they're good

2602
01:36:55,990 --> 01:36:53,199
communicators and they want to be of

2603
01:36:57,350 --> 01:36:56,000
value and in our broadcast oriented

2604
01:36:59,030 --> 01:36:57,360
world

2605
01:36:59,910 --> 01:36:59,040
they do they've established some of the

2606
01:37:02,310 --> 01:36:59,920
best

2607
01:37:04,470 --> 01:37:02,320
podcasts and radio shows and they don't

2608
01:37:07,830 --> 01:37:04,480
claim to be experts

2609
01:37:10,229 --> 01:37:07,840
what they're good at is having people

2610
01:37:12,470 --> 01:37:10,239
who are acknowledged

2611
01:37:13,750 --> 01:37:12,480
come on to their programs and have

2612
01:37:16,229 --> 01:37:13,760
ideally

2613
01:37:18,629 --> 01:37:16,239
intelligent interesting compelling

2614
01:37:20,390 --> 01:37:18,639
conversations with them that's of real

2615
01:37:22,629 --> 01:37:20,400
value too and i've heard those people

2616
01:37:24,470 --> 01:37:22,639
put down because oh well you know you've

2617
01:37:27,109 --> 01:37:24,480
got a podcast but you don't really know

2618
01:37:29,510 --> 01:37:27,119
the subject well i don't know as well as

2619
01:37:31,350 --> 01:37:29,520
you do and i want to learn more about it

2620
01:37:32,229 --> 01:37:31,360
and i know it's important

2621
01:37:34,310 --> 01:37:32,239
and

2622
01:37:35,669 --> 01:37:34,320
i can be of some value here as a

2623
01:37:37,750 --> 01:37:35,679
facilitator

2624
01:37:40,149 --> 01:37:37,760
in being a go-between in being the

2625
01:37:42,310 --> 01:37:40,159
widget that allows

2626
01:37:43,830 --> 01:37:42,320
this information source to go out to

2627
01:37:45,990 --> 01:37:43,840
this audience

2628
01:37:47,590 --> 01:37:46,000
if i don't do this well

2629
01:37:50,709 --> 01:37:47,600
i'm not going to succeed

2630
01:37:52,709 --> 01:37:50,719
if i do do it well i am going to succeed

2631
01:37:55,430 --> 01:37:52,719
and i'd like to

2632
01:37:56,950 --> 01:37:55,440
you know end the story yeah

2633
01:37:58,950 --> 01:37:56,960
yeah it's

2634
01:38:00,950 --> 01:37:58,960
been an interesting journey

2635
01:38:04,790 --> 01:38:00,960
just in my time in this field it's

2636
01:38:07,030 --> 01:38:04,800
changed so much and yeah it's it's

2637
01:38:07,910 --> 01:38:07,040
building off of others work i mean

2638
01:38:12,790 --> 01:38:07,920
that's

2639
01:38:15,189 --> 01:38:12,800
you know things don't just

2640
01:38:18,790 --> 01:38:15,199
pop out of nowhere they're built upon

2641
01:38:21,030 --> 01:38:18,800
and i think this topic is

2642
01:38:22,229 --> 01:38:21,040
that's what it is you know just this

2643
01:38:24,950 --> 01:38:22,239
minute you think you have an answer

2644
01:38:27,510 --> 01:38:24,960
there's 10 more questions attached to it

2645
01:38:30,390 --> 01:38:27,520
and i i love that i love chasing that

2646
01:38:32,149 --> 01:38:30,400
mystery and it's it's amazing and i

2647
01:38:35,189 --> 01:38:32,159
don't plan on stopping

2648
01:38:36,870 --> 01:38:35,199
anytime soon as i'm sure you're not um

2649
01:38:38,870 --> 01:38:36,880
well

2650
01:38:40,310 --> 01:38:38,880
i want to get your thoughts on a few

2651
01:38:43,350 --> 01:38:40,320
things that you've been personally

2652
01:38:45,669 --> 01:38:43,360
involved with in the field um and you

2653
01:38:47,510 --> 01:38:45,679
mentioned the name bud hopkins any of

2654
01:38:49,990 --> 01:38:47,520
our listeners who are familiar with the

2655
01:38:52,070 --> 01:38:50,000
abduction phenomenon know that name um

2656
01:38:53,750 --> 01:38:52,080
but you were his personal assistant for

2657
01:38:55,830 --> 01:38:53,760
a long time and you saw

2658
01:38:57,830 --> 01:38:55,840
hundreds of experiencers and acclaimed

2659
01:38:59,990 --> 01:38:57,840
abductees come and go

2660
01:39:01,669 --> 01:39:00,000
there's one case that is always really

2661
01:39:03,669 --> 01:39:01,679
stuck out to me

2662
01:39:05,270 --> 01:39:03,679
um and i saw the book here in your

2663
01:39:08,070 --> 01:39:05,280
collection witness

2664
01:39:10,870 --> 01:39:08,080
and that's the case of linda corteau

2665
01:39:12,950 --> 01:39:10,880
um very controversial case people you

2666
01:39:15,270 --> 01:39:12,960
know on are on either end of the

2667
01:39:17,910 --> 01:39:15,280
spectrum with it or in that gray area as

2668
01:39:20,070 --> 01:39:17,920
most of us usually are um

2669
01:39:22,470 --> 01:39:20,080
could you maybe run us through

2670
01:39:24,950 --> 01:39:22,480
the linda corteo case um

2671
01:39:26,790 --> 01:39:24,960
the best you can and uh

2672
01:39:29,109 --> 01:39:26,800
your involvement with that your

2673
01:39:32,310 --> 01:39:29,119
observations during buds investigation

2674
01:39:33,990 --> 01:39:32,320
with that and um yeah maybe set that up

2675
01:39:37,109 --> 01:39:34,000
for us as a case that a lot of our

2676
01:39:38,470 --> 01:39:37,119
listeners may never even have heard of

2677
01:39:39,750 --> 01:39:38,480
sure

2678
01:39:45,750 --> 01:39:39,760
in

2679
01:39:47,910 --> 01:39:45,760
a letter from a woman who

2680
01:39:49,910 --> 01:39:47,920
was a lifelong new yorker

2681
01:39:52,229 --> 01:39:49,920
uh lived downtown

2682
01:39:55,109 --> 01:39:52,239
in the same neighborhood she grew up in

2683
01:39:56,229 --> 01:39:55,119
um

2684
01:39:57,430 --> 01:39:56,239
mother

2685
01:39:59,830 --> 01:39:57,440
uh

2686
01:40:01,910 --> 01:39:59,840
married

2687
01:40:02,870 --> 01:40:01,920
high school education

2688
01:40:05,030 --> 01:40:02,880
um

2689
01:40:07,270 --> 01:40:05,040
italian american

2690
01:40:09,430 --> 01:40:07,280
who

2691
01:40:12,070 --> 01:40:09,440
had enough

2692
01:40:13,990 --> 01:40:12,080
thoughts and memories

2693
01:40:16,390 --> 01:40:14,000
um

2694
01:40:18,870 --> 01:40:16,400
of what could be a presenting design for

2695
01:40:20,629 --> 01:40:18,880
abduction not always

2696
01:40:22,390 --> 01:40:20,639
that

2697
01:40:25,109 --> 01:40:22,400
bud found really interesting

2698
01:40:27,910 --> 01:40:25,119
i read the letter first um

2699
01:40:29,590 --> 01:40:27,920
i read and responded to thousands of

2700
01:40:32,709 --> 01:40:29,600
pieces of mail over the years and bud

2701
01:40:37,350 --> 01:40:34,709
and this is 89 i'm trying to remember i

2702
01:40:38,790 --> 01:40:37,360
don't know if the internet existed yet

2703
01:40:41,669 --> 01:40:38,800
but um

2704
01:40:42,709 --> 01:40:41,679
he had simple pieces of stationery

2705
01:40:45,669 --> 01:40:42,719
and

2706
01:40:48,830 --> 01:40:45,679
letters would be either from possible

2707
01:40:51,030 --> 01:40:48,840
experiencers and abductees

2708
01:40:54,790 --> 01:40:51,040
fans um

2709
01:40:59,990 --> 01:40:57,750
incarcerated people

2710
01:41:02,149 --> 01:41:00,000
journalists what have you

2711
01:41:05,350 --> 01:41:02,159
and

2712
01:41:06,550 --> 01:41:05,360
he worked out a very simple code for me

2713
01:41:08,790 --> 01:41:06,560
of

2714
01:41:10,790 --> 01:41:08,800
certain symbols just to put on the ba uh

2715
01:41:12,629 --> 01:41:10,800
right on the envelope as i give him a

2716
01:41:14,550 --> 01:41:12,639
batch of mail

2717
01:41:16,870 --> 01:41:14,560
um and

2718
01:41:18,550 --> 01:41:16,880
there was a series of simple symbols of

2719
01:41:21,590 --> 01:41:18,560
stars or whatever

2720
01:41:22,870 --> 01:41:21,600
that indicated that i strongly suspected

2721
01:41:24,709 --> 01:41:22,880
that this

2722
01:41:25,669 --> 01:41:24,719
was the real deal

2723
01:41:28,950 --> 01:41:25,679
and

2724
01:41:31,510 --> 01:41:28,960
so i did with linda on this

2725
01:41:33,750 --> 01:41:31,520
and it wasn't until

2726
01:41:35,030 --> 01:41:33,760
around thanksgiving of that year that

2727
01:41:37,990 --> 01:41:35,040
she actually

2728
01:41:39,109 --> 01:41:38,000
came and met with bud for the first time

2729
01:41:42,470 --> 01:41:39,119
and

2730
01:41:44,550 --> 01:41:42,480
boy you know every light went off

2731
01:41:46,149 --> 01:41:44,560
linda's feeling was

2732
01:41:47,990 --> 01:41:46,159
i have these memories i have these

2733
01:41:50,390 --> 01:41:48,000
feelings i have these thoughts

2734
01:41:52,870 --> 01:41:50,400
but obviously this can't be on a certain

2735
01:41:54,550 --> 01:41:52,880
level so what i need to know

2736
01:41:57,109 --> 01:41:54,560
is what's wrong with me and what

2737
01:41:59,590 --> 01:41:57,119
medicine i should be taking or what

2738
01:42:01,990 --> 01:41:59,600
who i should be going to see

2739
01:42:03,750 --> 01:42:02,000
and bud began to investigate it and i

2740
01:42:04,950 --> 01:42:03,760
have to say he was

2741
01:42:07,270 --> 01:42:04,960
probably the best self-trained

2742
01:42:09,510 --> 01:42:07,280
investigator i've ever met in my life

2743
01:42:11,189 --> 01:42:09,520
and i used to joke with him occasionally

2744
01:42:13,030 --> 01:42:11,199
that rather than staying an artist if he

2745
01:42:14,870 --> 01:42:13,040
had become an investigator

2746
01:42:16,390 --> 01:42:14,880
if he decides to go into law enforcement

2747
01:42:18,790 --> 01:42:16,400
rather than be a painter god help the

2748
01:42:20,870 --> 01:42:18,800
criminal element in new york

2749
01:42:23,430 --> 01:42:20,880
he was extraordinary

2750
01:42:26,470 --> 01:42:23,440
and he

2751
01:42:29,669 --> 01:42:26,480
began to really research the subject

2752
01:42:32,629 --> 01:42:29,679
with her and

2753
01:42:34,310 --> 01:42:32,639
we began to see things

2754
01:42:35,910 --> 01:42:34,320
some of them for the first time in terms

2755
01:42:38,390 --> 01:42:35,920
of what became patterns because we had

2756
01:42:39,990 --> 01:42:38,400
never thought or knew to look at them

2757
01:42:40,830 --> 01:42:40,000
like in the case of

2758
01:42:43,830 --> 01:42:40,840
two

2759
01:42:46,310 --> 01:42:43,840
adults who as children were brought

2760
01:42:48,550 --> 01:42:46,320
together in a neutral space

2761
01:42:50,709 --> 01:42:48,560
repeatedly as young kids

2762
01:42:52,310 --> 01:42:50,719
and who later may have discovered each

2763
01:42:54,950 --> 01:42:52,320
other in life

2764
01:42:56,470 --> 01:42:54,960
consciously not recognizing that that

2765
01:42:57,910 --> 01:42:56,480
was the thing that drew them to each

2766
01:43:00,070 --> 01:42:57,920
other

2767
01:43:01,750 --> 01:43:00,080
i think we only had one case before that

2768
01:43:03,030 --> 01:43:01,760
of somebody who still remains a friend

2769
01:43:04,149 --> 01:43:03,040
of mine

2770
01:43:06,629 --> 01:43:04,159
who

2771
01:43:09,109 --> 01:43:06,639
married a woman a lovely woman

2772
01:43:11,430 --> 01:43:09,119
for reasons they weren't fully sure of

2773
01:43:13,750 --> 01:43:11,440
and then what began to emerge between

2774
01:43:16,709 --> 01:43:13,760
the two of the more conscious memories

2775
01:43:18,709 --> 01:43:16,719
of being on board a craft together

2776
01:43:21,669 --> 01:43:18,719
and

2777
01:43:23,270 --> 01:43:21,679
they found a way to verify it to their

2778
01:43:25,030 --> 01:43:23,280
satisfaction

2779
01:43:27,109 --> 01:43:25,040
and the result of that was although they

2780
01:43:29,430 --> 01:43:27,119
still loved each other

2781
01:43:32,629 --> 01:43:29,440
realizing

2782
01:43:34,310 --> 01:43:32,639
that an artificial situation in a sense

2783
01:43:36,550 --> 01:43:34,320
had brought them together

2784
01:43:38,629 --> 01:43:36,560
for its own reasons

2785
01:43:40,149 --> 01:43:38,639
and they amicably

2786
01:43:41,590 --> 01:43:40,159
i'm sure a certain amount of wistfulness

2787
01:43:43,910 --> 01:43:41,600
to put it mildly

2788
01:43:45,189 --> 01:43:43,920
um separated and divorced

2789
01:43:47,669 --> 01:43:45,199
um

2790
01:43:50,229 --> 01:43:47,679
the linda case that became known as the

2791
01:43:53,109 --> 01:43:50,239
brooklyn bridge ufo abduction case

2792
01:43:54,709 --> 01:43:53,119
for me of the several hundred

2793
01:43:55,669 --> 01:43:54,719
individuals that i met with over the

2794
01:43:58,390 --> 01:43:55,679
years

2795
01:43:59,990 --> 01:43:58,400
through bud not on my own uh others

2796
01:44:02,149 --> 01:44:00,000
certainly plenty of others

2797
01:44:04,149 --> 01:44:02,159
but i had an extraordinary position of

2798
01:44:05,350 --> 01:44:04,159
being kind of the bug on the wall or on

2799
01:44:07,270 --> 01:44:05,360
his shoulder

2800
01:44:08,229 --> 01:44:07,280
as these people made their way to new

2801
01:44:10,229 --> 01:44:08,239
york

2802
01:44:12,709 --> 01:44:10,239
or i was the one who took the initial

2803
01:44:13,750 --> 01:44:12,719
calls and did an entry-level

2804
01:44:16,709 --> 01:44:13,760
interview

2805
01:44:17,910 --> 01:44:16,719
or i was asked to sit in on an hypnotic

2806
01:44:24,070 --> 01:44:17,920
regression

2807
01:44:25,830 --> 01:44:24,080
in a series of old-fashioned ledgers

2808
01:44:26,750 --> 01:44:25,840
again this is all

2809
01:44:28,470 --> 01:44:26,760
you know

2810
01:44:31,669 --> 01:44:28,480
pre-computer

2811
01:44:34,629 --> 01:44:31,679
and um or digital really um

2812
01:44:35,990 --> 01:44:34,639
and you know entering dual logs of how

2813
01:44:38,790 --> 01:44:36,000
many times

2814
01:44:40,070 --> 01:44:38,800
basic synopses of what had happened

2815
01:44:41,990 --> 01:44:40,080
and

2816
01:44:44,229 --> 01:44:42,000
at a certain point

2817
01:44:48,229 --> 01:44:44,239
bud sat down with linda

2818
01:44:49,430 --> 01:44:48,239
and laid out why he was convinced that

2819
01:44:51,109 --> 01:44:49,440
this thing

2820
01:44:53,270 --> 01:44:51,119
had happened to her

2821
01:44:55,030 --> 01:44:53,280
the most pronounced aspect being the

2822
01:44:58,470 --> 01:44:55,040
center of the case

2823
01:44:59,510 --> 01:44:58,480
that on a particular night

2824
01:45:01,990 --> 01:44:59,520
she

2825
01:45:03,430 --> 01:45:02,000
and not a non-standard abduction

2826
01:45:05,189 --> 01:45:03,440
scenario

2827
01:45:06,950 --> 01:45:05,199
floated above her bed

2828
01:45:08,870 --> 01:45:06,960
and in her case

2829
01:45:10,550 --> 01:45:08,880
along with the number of the grays that

2830
01:45:13,189 --> 01:45:10,560
were in the room with her

2831
01:45:15,669 --> 01:45:13,199
through the plate glass window of her

2832
01:45:17,109 --> 01:45:15,679
downtown apartment i think on the 11th

2833
01:45:19,510 --> 01:45:17,119
floor

2834
01:45:21,189 --> 01:45:19,520
ironically with windows looking out both

2835
01:45:23,430 --> 01:45:21,199
on the brooklyn bridge here

2836
01:45:25,590 --> 01:45:23,440
and the world trade center there

2837
01:45:27,270 --> 01:45:25,600
into a craft a glowing craft hovering

2838
01:45:28,629 --> 01:45:27,280
above the building

2839
01:45:31,030 --> 01:45:28,639
as you know

2840
01:45:32,709 --> 01:45:31,040
new york city never fully sleeps

2841
01:45:33,910 --> 01:45:32,719
and even if it's two o'clock in the

2842
01:45:36,390 --> 01:45:33,920
morning

2843
01:45:38,790 --> 01:45:36,400
downtown there are still many people

2844
01:45:40,310 --> 01:45:38,800
awake and working um you know night

2845
01:45:44,470 --> 01:45:40,320
shift at one of the big newspaper

2846
01:45:48,390 --> 01:45:44,480
printers or coming and going etc

2847
01:45:49,830 --> 01:45:48,400
and many people saw this happen

2848
01:45:51,590 --> 01:45:49,840
they saw it

2849
01:45:53,430 --> 01:45:51,600
and by then but was well-known

2850
01:45:55,910 --> 01:45:53,440
personality in the work

2851
01:46:00,470 --> 01:45:55,920
and um

2852
01:46:02,149 --> 01:46:00,480
they started to write to him

2853
01:46:04,550 --> 01:46:02,159
for me one of the most compelling pieces

2854
01:46:06,390 --> 01:46:04,560
of evidence around the case

2855
01:46:08,149 --> 01:46:06,400
and for anybody thinking this could have

2856
01:46:09,990 --> 01:46:08,159
been a well organized

2857
01:46:12,310 --> 01:46:10,000
organized fabrication

2858
01:46:13,430 --> 01:46:12,320
no matter how complex it's easier to buy

2859
01:46:16,550 --> 01:46:13,440
that

2860
01:46:17,669 --> 01:46:16,560
than this whole abduction thing

2861
01:46:19,750 --> 01:46:17,679
a woman

2862
01:46:22,070 --> 01:46:19,760
on the brooklyn bridge driving home from

2863
01:46:25,590 --> 01:46:22,080
a retirement party of a friend

2864
01:46:26,390 --> 01:46:25,600
observing this glowing light and seeing

2865
01:46:27,669 --> 01:46:26,400
this

2866
01:46:29,430 --> 01:46:27,679
and wondering

2867
01:46:31,910 --> 01:46:29,440
obviously it's a movie being made but

2868
01:46:35,350 --> 01:46:31,920
how are they creating the special effect

2869
01:46:38,310 --> 01:46:35,360
somebody on the west side highway

2870
01:46:40,310 --> 01:46:38,320
i think he must have received at least a

2871
01:46:41,669 --> 01:46:40,320
dozen letters with carefully done

2872
01:46:45,270 --> 01:46:41,679
drawings

2873
01:46:46,950 --> 01:46:45,280
and for bud and i as trained artists

2874
01:46:49,990 --> 01:46:46,960
there was and for me remain something

2875
01:46:51,669 --> 01:46:50,000
special about witness drawings overall

2876
01:46:53,510 --> 01:46:51,679
they are done by people who are not

2877
01:46:56,870 --> 01:46:53,520
trained draftsman

2878
01:46:59,510 --> 01:46:56,880
they come from a deep desire to recreate

2879
01:47:01,990 --> 01:46:59,520
for somebody else to validate

2880
01:47:03,910 --> 01:47:02,000
what they saw or experienced

2881
01:47:05,750 --> 01:47:03,920
some of them are childlike and

2882
01:47:07,510 --> 01:47:05,760
labored others are you know fairly

2883
01:47:10,790 --> 01:47:07,520
simple and elegant

2884
01:47:12,709 --> 01:47:10,800
but what struck us the most about these

2885
01:47:15,189 --> 01:47:12,719
was they all

2886
01:47:18,470 --> 01:47:15,199
were almost all exactly the same shape

2887
01:47:20,390 --> 01:47:18,480
and have the same lighting configuration

2888
01:47:23,030 --> 01:47:20,400
and

2889
01:47:25,030 --> 01:47:23,040
downtown at the time

2890
01:47:27,030 --> 01:47:25,040
with two security people

2891
01:47:29,109 --> 01:47:27,040
was a um

2892
01:47:30,310 --> 01:47:29,119
a very important diplomat

2893
01:47:32,629 --> 01:47:30,320
um

2894
01:47:34,709 --> 01:47:32,639
once bud had established who it was it

2895
01:47:36,790 --> 01:47:34,719
seemed so outrageous

2896
01:47:37,830 --> 01:47:36,800
that the book does not mention who it

2897
01:47:40,470 --> 01:47:37,840
was

2898
01:47:42,229 --> 01:47:40,480
it became an open secret and now is

2899
01:47:44,709 --> 01:47:42,239
pretty much public knowledge

2900
01:47:46,390 --> 01:47:44,719
that it was perez de cuellar who at the

2901
01:47:48,310 --> 01:47:46,400
time was the secretary general of the

2902
01:47:50,070 --> 01:47:48,320
united nations

2903
01:47:52,390 --> 01:47:50,080
so one reason the case is considered

2904
01:47:53,910 --> 01:47:52,400
controversial is yeah right

2905
01:47:55,270 --> 01:47:53,920
please give me a break the secretary

2906
01:47:58,310 --> 01:47:55,280
general of the united nations was

2907
01:48:00,470 --> 01:47:58,320
downtown at two in the morning

2908
01:48:03,189 --> 01:48:00,480
oh why well

2909
01:48:05,510 --> 01:48:03,199
he may have had a romantic liaison

2910
01:48:07,750 --> 01:48:05,520
he's a married man

2911
01:48:11,350 --> 01:48:07,760
he was in a very important diplomatic

2912
01:48:13,430 --> 01:48:11,360
internationally diplomatic position

2913
01:48:17,669 --> 01:48:13,440
he was catholic

2914
01:48:21,430 --> 01:48:19,030
his prelate

2915
01:48:23,350 --> 01:48:21,440
the man who he went to for confession of

2916
01:48:25,510 --> 01:48:23,360
mass

2917
01:48:28,790 --> 01:48:25,520
was cardinal john o'connor

2918
01:48:31,430 --> 01:48:28,800
and cardinal o'connor uh was not just

2919
01:48:33,510 --> 01:48:31,440
the cardinal of new york

2920
01:48:37,750 --> 01:48:33,520
he was one of the most powerful and

2921
01:48:40,149 --> 01:48:37,760
influential catholic politics in america

2922
01:48:43,030 --> 01:48:40,159
cardinal o'connor was connected

2923
01:48:44,870 --> 01:48:43,040
to a lot of major players in the

2924
01:48:46,390 --> 01:48:44,880
political world in the united states and

2925
01:48:48,629 --> 01:48:46,400
in the beltway

2926
01:48:50,310 --> 01:48:48,639
and certainly in new york city

2927
01:48:51,510 --> 01:48:50,320
and

2928
01:49:15,109 --> 01:48:51,520
i

2929
01:49:16,870 --> 01:49:15,119
that was pre-arranged through um de

2930
01:49:17,830 --> 01:49:16,880
cuellar's office

2931
01:49:20,390 --> 01:49:17,840
who

2932
01:49:22,310 --> 01:49:20,400
obviously wanted to meet with bud

2933
01:49:24,310 --> 01:49:22,320
but gave him a certain

2934
01:49:25,830 --> 01:49:24,320
amount of information but asked him a

2935
01:49:27,910 --> 01:49:25,840
series of questions

2936
01:49:31,510 --> 01:49:27,920
none of which he denied because he was

2937
01:49:33,510 --> 01:49:31,520
involved in an abduction that linda was

2938
01:49:34,470 --> 01:49:33,520
and the two security men who were with

2939
01:49:36,470 --> 01:49:34,480
them

2940
01:49:39,430 --> 01:49:36,480
one of these men

2941
01:49:41,750 --> 01:49:39,440
became obsessed with linda obsessed

2942
01:49:44,390 --> 01:49:41,760
and that obsession was rooted

2943
01:49:46,790 --> 01:49:44,400
in what linda was

2944
01:49:48,629 --> 01:49:46,800
had to acknowledge at a certain point as

2945
01:49:51,030 --> 01:49:48,639
we developed the material

2946
01:49:52,629 --> 01:49:51,040
oh my god this reoccurring memory from

2947
01:49:55,589 --> 01:49:52,639
early childhood

2948
01:49:57,109 --> 01:49:55,599
five seven years old

2949
01:49:58,229 --> 01:49:57,119
finding myself

2950
01:50:00,070 --> 01:49:58,239
in

2951
01:50:01,109 --> 01:50:00,080
this room

2952
01:50:03,270 --> 01:50:01,119
this

2953
01:50:05,750 --> 01:50:03,280
kind of

2954
01:50:07,350 --> 01:50:05,760
undefined white space

2955
01:50:09,350 --> 01:50:07,360
with a boy

2956
01:50:10,550 --> 01:50:09,360
a little bit older than me

2957
01:50:12,709 --> 01:50:10,560
and

2958
01:50:14,709 --> 01:50:12,719
as linda said i was you know a

2959
01:50:17,189 --> 01:50:14,719
passionate yankees fan

2960
01:50:19,589 --> 01:50:17,199
i went to sleep with my yankees hat on

2961
01:50:21,830 --> 01:50:19,599
and there i was as a little kid

2962
01:50:23,750 --> 01:50:21,840
and one of the things that he used to do

2963
01:50:26,070 --> 01:50:23,760
you know two little kids in this weird

2964
01:50:27,589 --> 01:50:26,080
space to decrease the tension was he

2965
01:50:29,189 --> 01:50:27,599
take the bill and he'd turn it like that

2966
01:50:30,310 --> 01:50:29,199
on my hat and i didn't like that i turn

2967
01:50:32,390 --> 01:50:30,320
it back

2968
01:50:34,390 --> 01:50:32,400
and he was confronted with that he

2969
01:50:36,790 --> 01:50:34,400
remembered that very well

2970
01:50:39,270 --> 01:50:36,800
the other security man ultimately became

2971
01:50:41,030 --> 01:50:39,280
completely unwound emotionally

2972
01:50:41,990 --> 01:50:41,040
and he disappeared

2973
01:50:44,950 --> 01:50:42,000
off

2974
01:50:47,830 --> 01:50:44,960
any ability to trace him

2975
01:50:49,589 --> 01:50:47,840
whether he was institutionalized or

2976
01:50:52,470 --> 01:50:49,599
just removed from the case and

2977
01:50:54,550 --> 01:50:52,480
disallowed to communicate or

2978
01:50:55,990 --> 01:50:54,560
not alive i have no idea and i won't

2979
01:50:59,669 --> 01:50:56,000
speculate

2980
01:51:01,990 --> 01:50:59,679
the case took six years to research

2981
01:51:03,830 --> 01:51:02,000
and far and away more than any

2982
01:51:05,589 --> 01:51:03,840
involvement that i had with any of other

2983
01:51:07,750 --> 01:51:05,599
buds cases

2984
01:51:10,390 --> 01:51:07,760
this was the one that

2985
01:51:11,990 --> 01:51:10,400
i was involved in too for six years

2986
01:51:13,510 --> 01:51:12,000
that's a long time

2987
01:51:15,510 --> 01:51:13,520
during that time

2988
01:51:16,870 --> 01:51:15,520
i met regularly with linda who became a

2989
01:51:19,189 --> 01:51:16,880
good friend

2990
01:51:20,550 --> 01:51:19,199
as well as somebody who i felt somewhat

2991
01:51:22,149 --> 01:51:20,560
protective of

2992
01:51:24,390 --> 01:51:22,159
and who

2993
01:51:27,350 --> 01:51:24,400
i was convinced had gone through what

2994
01:51:28,550 --> 01:51:27,360
she alleged she had gone through

2995
01:51:31,750 --> 01:51:28,560
and

2996
01:51:34,149 --> 01:51:31,760
by the time the book was published

2997
01:51:36,470 --> 01:51:34,159
i had been privy to a great deal of

2998
01:51:37,750 --> 01:51:36,480
information around it as it was coming

2999
01:51:44,070 --> 01:51:37,760
in

3000
01:51:46,470 --> 01:51:44,080
claims of somebody famous and unlikely

3001
01:51:49,430 --> 01:51:46,480
being involved

3002
01:51:51,990 --> 01:51:49,440
stirred up a great deal of controversy

3003
01:51:55,350 --> 01:51:52,000
in the ufo research community

3004
01:51:56,070 --> 01:51:55,360
which i got and understood i mean we

3005
01:52:00,870 --> 01:51:56,080
wish

3006
01:52:05,589 --> 01:52:03,109
you know um

3007
01:52:06,470 --> 01:52:05,599
sometimes there's an impulse you'd like

3008
01:52:08,550 --> 01:52:06,480
to

3009
01:52:11,350 --> 01:52:08,560
change a detail

3010
01:52:14,470 --> 01:52:11,360
in the service of the greater truth

3011
01:52:17,350 --> 01:52:14,480
it's a white lie it's a small thing

3012
01:52:20,550 --> 01:52:17,360
i wish i could ass

3013
01:52:22,870 --> 01:52:20,560
sign on to that ethic i can't you lie

3014
01:52:24,550 --> 01:52:22,880
you're a liar and if you're caught

3015
01:52:27,510 --> 01:52:24,560
you have a problem and the work you're

3016
01:52:28,629 --> 01:52:27,520
doing is understandably now more open to

3017
01:52:30,229 --> 01:52:28,639
questioning

3018
01:52:31,350 --> 01:52:30,239
it doesn't matter what your motivation

3019
01:52:33,910 --> 01:52:31,360
was

3020
01:52:36,390 --> 01:52:33,920
i think it still stands for me aside

3021
01:52:38,790 --> 01:52:36,400
from my sister's case to use the most

3022
01:52:41,669 --> 01:52:38,800
dispassionate word

3023
01:52:43,669 --> 01:52:41,679
as the most memorable

3024
01:52:46,310 --> 01:52:43,679
the most complex

3025
01:52:48,310 --> 01:52:46,320
the most mind-blowing and challenging

3026
01:52:49,910 --> 01:52:48,320
of any i've ever been involved

3027
01:52:51,350 --> 01:52:49,920
investigating

3028
01:52:53,189 --> 01:52:51,360
and

3029
01:52:55,350 --> 01:52:53,199
at this point my life i don't know how

3030
01:52:56,950 --> 01:52:55,360
many dozens of books i receive a credit

3031
01:53:00,390 --> 01:52:56,960
or thank you in

3032
01:53:02,629 --> 01:53:00,400
and in one case of dedication

3033
01:53:03,750 --> 01:53:02,639
but i'm particularly proud of that

3034
01:53:06,790 --> 01:53:03,760
acknowledgement

3035
01:53:09,990 --> 01:53:06,800
in the acknowledgments of of witnessed

3036
01:53:10,830 --> 01:53:10,000
and i still stay in touch with linda

3037
01:53:12,470 --> 01:53:10,840
who

3038
01:53:14,709 --> 01:53:12,480
um

3039
01:53:17,669 --> 01:53:14,719
you know still sends absolutely rock

3040
01:53:20,310 --> 01:53:17,679
solid on everything that happened to her

3041
01:53:22,229 --> 01:53:20,320
i think bud had one regret about

3042
01:53:25,189 --> 01:53:22,239
the case and how he handled it

3043
01:53:26,390 --> 01:53:25,199
which was maybe two years in which would

3044
01:53:28,470 --> 01:53:26,400
have been like four years before the

3045
01:53:30,470 --> 01:53:28,480
book was published

3046
01:53:32,149 --> 01:53:30,480
he was so enthused with some of what

3047
01:53:33,990 --> 01:53:32,159
these findings were

3048
01:53:35,510 --> 01:53:34,000
and this pattern of children being

3049
01:53:37,990 --> 01:53:35,520
brought together and then reconnected

3050
01:53:39,990 --> 01:53:38,000
later in life and recognizing each other

3051
01:53:42,070 --> 01:53:40,000
which again we only had one incident of

3052
01:53:43,750 --> 01:53:42,080
that beforehand and we now

3053
01:53:45,669 --> 01:53:43,760
now that we knew it was something that

3054
01:53:46,390 --> 01:53:45,679
we could look for have quite a number of

3055
01:53:49,830 --> 01:53:46,400
them

3056
01:53:52,310 --> 01:53:49,840
within the greater field archive of ufo

3057
01:53:54,629 --> 01:53:52,320
abduction related studies

3058
01:53:56,390 --> 01:53:54,639
that he wrote several monographs

3059
01:53:58,870 --> 01:53:56,400
and they made their way out into the

3060
01:53:59,910 --> 01:53:58,880
research community and in one particular

3061
01:54:03,270 --> 01:53:59,920
case

3062
01:54:06,149 --> 01:54:03,280
three kind of skeptical inquirers um in

3063
01:54:08,390 --> 01:54:06,159
a neighboring state latched on to it

3064
01:54:10,870 --> 01:54:08,400
and used it i think in part

3065
01:54:12,149 --> 01:54:10,880
as an opportunity in their minds

3066
01:54:14,390 --> 01:54:12,159
to

3067
01:54:16,070 --> 01:54:14,400
address what they felt was an accuracy

3068
01:54:18,709 --> 01:54:16,080
of correction an exaggeration in the

3069
01:54:20,950 --> 01:54:18,719
work of somebody well known in the field

3070
01:54:22,950 --> 01:54:20,960
or you know on a slightly basic

3071
01:54:24,390 --> 01:54:22,960
motivation possibly

3072
01:54:25,669 --> 01:54:24,400
get the attention

3073
01:54:27,350 --> 01:54:25,679
that they could not have gotten

3074
01:54:28,629 --> 01:54:27,360
otherwise

3075
01:54:31,510 --> 01:54:28,639
and

3076
01:54:33,669 --> 01:54:31,520
that became a subject

3077
01:54:35,750 --> 01:54:33,679
of discussion

3078
01:54:37,750 --> 01:54:35,760
where had he waited

3079
01:54:39,750 --> 01:54:37,760
and never published anything around it

3080
01:54:41,270 --> 01:54:39,760
until he's ready to publish

3081
01:54:42,870 --> 01:54:41,280
that would have been short-circuited and

3082
01:54:45,830 --> 01:54:42,880
not happened and all the evidence would

3083
01:54:48,229 --> 01:54:45,840
have presented been presented at once

3084
01:54:50,790 --> 01:54:48,239
so it became something

3085
01:54:52,229 --> 01:54:50,800
you know those kind of regrets where

3086
01:54:53,669 --> 01:54:52,239
it's not the worst thing in the world

3087
01:54:54,709 --> 01:54:53,679
but i wish i had handled that

3088
01:54:56,709 --> 01:54:54,719
differently

3089
01:54:57,750 --> 01:54:56,719
um and just been allowed to proceed in

3090
01:55:00,149 --> 01:54:57,760
this

3091
01:55:03,750 --> 01:55:00,159
but it was that level of enthusiasm and

3092
01:55:04,629 --> 01:55:03,760
i felt it too it was amazing

3093
01:55:07,030 --> 01:55:04,639
and

3094
01:55:09,990 --> 01:55:07,040
the desire to get it out there into the

3095
01:55:11,189 --> 01:55:10,000
research community i think was noble

3096
01:55:13,109 --> 01:55:11,199
uh

3097
01:55:14,629 --> 01:55:13,119
but it was used in a way that was

3098
01:55:17,350 --> 01:55:14,639
counterproductive and that's the way it

3099
01:55:20,070 --> 01:55:17,360
is sometimes yeah absolutely live and

3100
01:55:23,830 --> 01:55:20,080
learn i would just close by saying

3101
01:55:26,390 --> 01:55:23,840
i encourage everybody to read that book

3102
01:55:28,550 --> 01:55:26,400
witnessed the true story of the brooklyn

3103
01:55:30,390 --> 01:55:28,560
bridge ufo abductions

3104
01:55:31,589 --> 01:55:30,400
and then come to their own best

3105
01:55:33,510 --> 01:55:31,599
conclusions

3106
01:55:36,390 --> 01:55:33,520
right yeah that's you know that's

3107
01:55:38,709 --> 01:55:36,400
another thing in this field is

3108
01:55:40,629 --> 01:55:38,719
people will criticize and comment on

3109
01:55:42,470 --> 01:55:40,639
things that they haven't even read

3110
01:55:44,229 --> 01:55:42,480
especially in today's

3111
01:55:46,550 --> 01:55:44,239
world of headlines

3112
01:55:48,390 --> 01:55:46,560
online where you don't even read the

3113
01:55:49,669 --> 01:55:48,400
article you just base everything solely

3114
01:55:52,790 --> 01:55:49,679
on the

3115
01:55:56,629 --> 01:55:52,800
often biased headlines and that's

3116
01:55:58,550 --> 01:55:56,639
that's an issue for sure sadly um in our

3117
01:56:00,470 --> 01:55:58,560
culture

3118
01:56:03,109 --> 01:56:00,480
we have a phenomenon

3119
01:56:05,350 --> 01:56:03,119
and it's very human of i don't have much

3120
01:56:07,589 --> 01:56:05,360
in this world but i have a right a right

3121
01:56:09,589 --> 01:56:07,599
to have an opinion on anything i want i

3122
01:56:11,109 --> 01:56:09,599
couldn't agree more

3123
01:56:13,430 --> 01:56:11,119
where i differ

3124
01:56:16,390 --> 01:56:13,440
with that philosophy

3125
01:56:17,830 --> 01:56:16,400
is i feel i have a right to an informed

3126
01:56:20,149 --> 01:56:17,840
opinion

3127
01:56:22,310 --> 01:56:20,159
and occasionally when i'm asked about a

3128
01:56:23,910 --> 01:56:22,320
case or a question about the ufo

3129
01:56:25,430 --> 01:56:23,920
phenomena or whatever

3130
01:56:27,669 --> 01:56:25,440
in a q a

3131
01:56:29,270 --> 01:56:27,679
conference setting or more often in a

3132
01:56:32,149 --> 01:56:29,280
radio podcast

3133
01:56:33,910 --> 01:56:32,159
in call-in shows

3134
01:56:35,910 --> 01:56:33,920
i will say

3135
01:56:37,910 --> 01:56:35,920
i don't have an opinion on that what do

3136
01:56:40,470 --> 01:56:37,920
you mean you don't have an opinion well

3137
01:56:42,149 --> 01:56:40,480
i don't know enough about the subject

3138
01:56:43,270 --> 01:56:42,159
to speak with any intelligence or

3139
01:56:45,189 --> 01:56:43,280
knowledge

3140
01:56:47,589 --> 01:56:45,199
i i think i probably should learn more

3141
01:56:48,950 --> 01:56:47,599
about it so that i can express an

3142
01:56:51,109 --> 01:56:48,960
opinion

3143
01:56:53,270 --> 01:56:51,119
but for somebody to say

3144
01:56:55,270 --> 01:56:53,280
you know i'm a i am entitled to have an

3145
01:56:56,470 --> 01:56:55,280
opinion on anything that i want as an

3146
01:56:57,669 --> 01:56:56,480
american

3147
01:56:58,790 --> 01:56:57,679
sure you are

3148
01:57:00,070 --> 01:56:58,800
but maybe you ought to know what the

3149
01:57:01,589 --> 01:57:00,080
hell you're talking about before you

3150
01:57:03,109 --> 01:57:01,599
have an opinion on it

3151
01:57:04,950 --> 01:57:03,119
and a lot of people take that personally

3152
01:57:08,070 --> 01:57:04,960
go figure

3153
01:57:09,910 --> 01:57:08,080
exactly exactly there's consequences

3154
01:57:11,830 --> 01:57:09,920
for putting your opinions out there and

3155
01:57:14,390 --> 01:57:11,840
people need to realize that

3156
01:57:17,589 --> 01:57:14,400
um i came across in your

3157
01:57:20,629 --> 01:57:17,599
your binders here in the office a very

3158
01:57:22,070 --> 01:57:20,639
interesting binder about the u.n

3159
01:57:24,229 --> 01:57:22,080
in ufos

3160
01:57:27,189 --> 01:57:24,239
um you know for some of our listeners

3161
01:57:29,589 --> 01:57:27,199
may be familiar with the work that uh

3162
01:57:32,149 --> 01:57:29,599
new york city journalist lee spiegel was

3163
01:57:33,510 --> 01:57:32,159
a part of when it comes to the un but uh

3164
01:57:35,910 --> 01:57:33,520
you also

3165
01:57:38,629 --> 01:57:35,920
um tangentially were involved with

3166
01:57:40,550 --> 01:57:38,639
something to do with the un and ufos and

3167
01:57:42,149 --> 01:57:40,560
i found that binder fascinating when i

3168
01:57:44,390 --> 01:57:42,159
was flipping through it could you tell

3169
01:57:46,390 --> 01:57:44,400
us about your involvement with um with

3170
01:57:49,109 --> 01:57:46,400
the un when it comes to this and also

3171
01:57:50,310 --> 01:57:49,119
the house of lords debate as well it

3172
01:57:52,550 --> 01:57:50,320
wasn't just

3173
01:57:53,990 --> 01:57:52,560
you know the u.n but um yeah tell us

3174
01:57:55,910 --> 01:57:54,000
about your involvement with those things

3175
01:57:58,070 --> 01:57:55,920
if you don't mind well number one let's

3176
01:58:00,070 --> 01:57:58,080
talk about um

3177
01:58:01,910 --> 01:58:00,080
somebody far more important in that

3178
01:58:02,870 --> 01:58:01,920
question than i am and you mentioned him

3179
01:58:04,629 --> 01:58:02,880
already

3180
01:58:06,470 --> 01:58:04,639
uh and that is a distinguished

3181
01:58:09,350 --> 01:58:06,480
journalist lee spiegel

3182
01:58:11,510 --> 01:58:09,360
who is one of our most highly regarded

3183
01:58:13,669 --> 01:58:11,520
ufo related

3184
01:58:15,830 --> 01:58:13,679
investigative writers

3185
01:58:19,750 --> 01:58:15,840
and

3186
01:58:22,870 --> 01:58:19,760
worked for years as the ufo journalist

3187
01:58:23,910 --> 01:58:22,880
for the huffington post organization

3188
01:58:28,229 --> 01:58:23,920
and

3189
01:58:30,790 --> 01:58:28,239
one of the greatest guys i know

3190
01:58:32,470 --> 01:58:30,800
lee as a 20-something

3191
01:58:35,270 --> 01:58:32,480
who had had

3192
01:58:37,270 --> 01:58:35,280
what really was an historic ufo

3193
01:58:39,430 --> 01:58:37,280
experience

3194
01:58:40,550 --> 01:58:39,440
somehow managed to connect

3195
01:58:44,470 --> 01:58:40,560
with

3196
01:58:49,109 --> 01:58:47,109
the smallest countries in the u.n and

3197
01:58:51,750 --> 01:58:49,119
one of the most least powerful

3198
01:58:53,270 --> 01:58:51,760
the island of grenada in uh the

3199
01:58:55,750 --> 01:58:53,280
caribbean

3200
01:58:58,229 --> 01:58:55,760
and that was sir eric gary

3201
01:59:00,390 --> 01:58:58,239
gary took the subject of ufos seriously

3202
01:59:03,430 --> 01:59:00,400
he had had a ufo sighting

3203
01:59:06,390 --> 01:59:03,440
but he was also a believer in paranormal

3204
01:59:07,669 --> 01:59:06,400
stuff that for a lot of the diplomatic

3205
01:59:10,070 --> 01:59:07,679
corps it

3206
01:59:11,750 --> 01:59:10,080
reduced his believability

3207
01:59:15,109 --> 01:59:11,760
and

3208
01:59:17,270 --> 01:59:15,119
bringing this to the attention of the

3209
01:59:19,109 --> 01:59:17,280
ufo and creating the situation we're

3210
01:59:21,750 --> 01:59:19,119
going to discuss

3211
01:59:24,629 --> 01:59:21,760
but it was lee spiegel

3212
01:59:27,510 --> 01:59:24,639
who prevailed on him to do it

3213
01:59:29,350 --> 01:59:27,520
and then prevailed on him again to do it

3214
01:59:31,510 --> 01:59:29,360
it was

3215
01:59:34,790 --> 01:59:31,520
this guy

3216
01:59:37,669 --> 01:59:34,800
a regular guy you know a young guy

3217
01:59:38,870 --> 01:59:37,679
who was the whole impetus for this and

3218
01:59:41,109 --> 01:59:38,880
lee

3219
01:59:42,550 --> 01:59:41,119
deserves incredible credit for this it's

3220
01:59:44,149 --> 01:59:42,560
historic

3221
01:59:47,750 --> 01:59:44,159
but ultimately

3222
01:59:49,750 --> 01:59:47,760
gary was able after a number of

3223
01:59:51,669 --> 01:59:49,760
unsuccessful tries

3224
01:59:54,629 --> 01:59:51,679
to put on the docket

3225
01:59:56,149 --> 01:59:54,639
a series of committee meetings to

3226
01:59:57,750 --> 01:59:56,159
discuss

3227
02:00:01,430 --> 01:59:57,760
the possibility

3228
02:00:04,310 --> 02:00:01,440
of creating a ufo study committee within

3229
02:00:06,070 --> 02:00:04,320
the auspices of the united nations

3230
02:00:08,149 --> 02:00:06,080
not too spectacular but certainly

3231
02:00:10,229 --> 02:00:08,159
nothing that had ever been done

3232
02:00:11,350 --> 02:00:10,239
with a very simple mandate

3233
02:00:12,790 --> 02:00:11,360
that

3234
02:00:15,109 --> 02:00:12,800
countries

3235
02:00:17,510 --> 02:00:15,119
contribute what they knew or thought

3236
02:00:19,510 --> 02:00:17,520
they knew or information they had

3237
02:00:21,669 --> 02:00:19,520
to a central database

3238
02:00:23,910 --> 02:00:21,679
and that that be studied

3239
02:00:24,790 --> 02:00:23,920
and learned from and then decisions made

3240
02:00:26,629 --> 02:00:24,800
about

3241
02:00:30,149 --> 02:00:26,639
any position the united nations might

3242
02:00:32,149 --> 02:00:31,270
a lot of

3243
02:00:34,950 --> 02:00:32,159
the

3244
02:00:37,750 --> 02:00:34,960
members were not keen on this

3245
02:00:39,669 --> 02:00:37,760
and in great part

3246
02:00:41,350 --> 02:00:39,679
could it be the simple yes it can fear

3247
02:00:44,550 --> 02:00:41,360
vertical

3248
02:00:46,470 --> 02:00:44,560
so many of these individuals

3249
02:00:48,950 --> 02:00:46,480
you know they had risen to a point and

3250
02:00:50,870 --> 02:00:48,960
good for them in their countries

3251
02:00:52,790 --> 02:00:50,880
where they were nominated and nomination

3252
02:00:55,109 --> 02:00:52,800
was approved or however it works

3253
02:00:57,109 --> 02:00:55,119
to be the representative to the united

3254
02:00:59,510 --> 02:00:57,119
nations from their country

3255
02:01:00,709 --> 02:00:59,520
and that came with almost always a nice

3256
02:01:02,629 --> 02:01:00,719
apartment

3257
02:01:04,070 --> 02:01:02,639
a life maybe than the one better than

3258
02:01:06,629 --> 02:01:04,080
the one they had

3259
02:01:07,510 --> 02:01:06,639
um connections with a whole different

3260
02:01:09,510 --> 02:01:07,520
world

3261
02:01:11,750 --> 02:01:09,520
you know living in new york city rather

3262
02:01:14,550 --> 02:01:11,760
than wherever the hell they came from

3263
02:01:16,229 --> 02:01:14,560
and the idea of

3264
02:01:19,030 --> 02:01:16,239
you're saying by implication you want me

3265
02:01:21,830 --> 02:01:19,040
to go back to the head of my government

3266
02:01:24,629 --> 02:01:21,840
and say i think ufos are real enough

3267
02:01:26,629 --> 02:01:24,639
that we should vote for this amendment

3268
02:01:29,189 --> 02:01:26,639
and create this committee

3269
02:01:31,589 --> 02:01:29,199
with the possibility of the ridicule

3270
02:01:33,189 --> 02:01:31,599
that we all know has a good chance of

3271
02:01:36,310 --> 02:01:33,199
accompanying it

3272
02:01:39,430 --> 02:01:36,320
toward our country and toward me as an

3273
02:01:42,070 --> 02:01:39,440
individual and by extension you

3274
02:01:45,030 --> 02:01:42,080
for allowing me to make that vote

3275
02:01:47,109 --> 02:01:45,040
a number of the seats well anyway um

3276
02:01:48,870 --> 02:01:47,119
finally it was put on the docket

3277
02:01:51,910 --> 02:01:48,880
and it was gonna happen and this was

3278
02:01:53,669 --> 02:01:51,920
amazing um coleman von kovetsky who i

3279
02:01:56,229 --> 02:01:53,679
mentioned earlier

3280
02:01:58,470 --> 02:01:56,239
had been um

3281
02:02:01,750 --> 02:01:58,480
close to

3282
02:02:05,910 --> 02:02:01,760
an earlier secretary general oothant

3283
02:02:07,830 --> 02:02:05,920
who he had presented with documents

3284
02:02:09,350 --> 02:02:07,840
well before the freedom of information

3285
02:02:11,430 --> 02:02:09,360
act that he had gotten from sources in

3286
02:02:13,030 --> 02:02:11,440
the pentagon that ultimately

3287
02:02:14,149 --> 02:02:13,040
with the passage of time proved to be

3288
02:02:16,950 --> 02:02:14,159
authentic

3289
02:02:20,390 --> 02:02:16,960
about the reality of ufos

3290
02:02:22,070 --> 02:02:20,400
and at some point in the 60s as america

3291
02:02:23,669 --> 02:02:22,080
was getting more deeply involved maybe

3292
02:02:26,149 --> 02:02:23,679
67

3293
02:02:28,709 --> 02:02:26,159
in the war in vietnam

3294
02:02:31,189 --> 02:02:28,719
thon took it so seriously that he made a

3295
02:02:32,950 --> 02:02:31,199
statement that went out on wire services

3296
02:02:34,390 --> 02:02:32,960
all over the world

3297
02:02:37,510 --> 02:02:34,400
i don't remember the exact quote but it

3298
02:02:39,270 --> 02:02:37,520
was basically next to the war in vietnam

3299
02:02:41,910 --> 02:02:39,280
the most pressing subject that we need

3300
02:02:43,990 --> 02:02:41,920
to deal with is that of ufos

3301
02:02:46,709 --> 02:02:44,000
that was intolerable to certain people

3302
02:02:48,709 --> 02:02:46,719
in the intelligence community who and i

3303
02:02:50,149 --> 02:02:48,719
have this first hand and i take it very

3304
02:02:52,709 --> 02:02:50,159
seriously

3305
02:02:54,149 --> 02:02:52,719
um showed up one afternoon

3306
02:02:57,990 --> 02:02:54,159
two gentlemen

3307
02:03:00,629 --> 02:02:58,000
in suits um at coleman's apartment

3308
02:03:03,350 --> 02:03:00,639
and asked to chat with him

3309
02:03:05,750 --> 02:03:03,360
very respectful uh the whole way

3310
02:03:07,750 --> 02:03:05,760
but essentially said we know who you are

3311
02:03:10,870 --> 02:03:07,760
and we know what you have done

3312
02:03:13,430 --> 02:03:10,880
and this is causing real problems

3313
02:03:15,589 --> 02:03:13,440
uh what we need you to do is go back to

3314
02:03:17,750 --> 02:03:15,599
the secretary general and

3315
02:03:19,669 --> 02:03:17,760
choose your own wording and rationale

3316
02:03:21,350 --> 02:03:19,679
but make it clear to him that you now

3317
02:03:22,790 --> 02:03:21,360
you are not so sure of the prominence of

3318
02:03:24,470 --> 02:03:22,800
these documents

3319
02:03:26,470 --> 02:03:24,480
that you don't want to risk him

3320
02:03:28,229 --> 02:03:26,480
embarrassing himself further

3321
02:03:29,830 --> 02:03:28,239
and that he needs to make a retraction

3322
02:03:33,109 --> 02:03:29,840
to this statement

3323
02:03:34,310 --> 02:03:33,119
it is a concern of the president lyndon

3324
02:03:36,950 --> 02:03:34,320
johnson

3325
02:03:39,430 --> 02:03:36,960
and um

3326
02:03:42,870 --> 02:03:39,440
we'd really appreciate that we know that

3327
02:03:43,669 --> 02:03:42,880
you make your living and a good living

3328
02:03:46,149 --> 02:03:43,679
as

3329
02:03:47,430 --> 02:03:46,159
an expert on optics and that you are

3330
02:03:48,950 --> 02:03:47,440
consultant

3331
02:03:50,310 --> 02:03:48,960
to agfa

3332
02:03:52,629 --> 02:03:50,320
to kodak

3333
02:03:53,830 --> 02:03:52,639
to this film company to this camera

3334
02:03:55,750 --> 02:03:53,840
company

3335
02:03:58,069 --> 02:03:55,760
and

3336
02:04:00,069 --> 02:03:58,079
nothing will change about that in fact

3337
02:04:01,350 --> 02:04:00,079
we will wish you well and hope you have

3338
02:04:04,310 --> 02:04:01,360
more work

3339
02:04:06,229 --> 02:04:04,320
but if you do not do what we're asking

3340
02:04:08,470 --> 02:04:06,239
we will make sure that every single

3341
02:04:11,030 --> 02:04:08,480
consulting job you have

3342
02:04:12,790 --> 02:04:11,040
dries up and that no more come at you

3343
02:04:15,189 --> 02:04:12,800
and you will live for the rest of your

3344
02:04:16,950 --> 02:04:15,199
life on your social security and what

3345
02:04:19,830 --> 02:04:16,960
you make selling your ufo little

3346
02:04:22,390 --> 02:04:19,840
booklets at ufo conferences

3347
02:04:24,310 --> 02:04:22,400
and coleman who is already 70 or so at a

3348
02:04:26,069 --> 02:04:24,320
very

3349
02:04:27,430 --> 02:04:26,079
i mean a bigger than life guy in some

3350
02:04:29,669 --> 02:04:27,440
ways and

3351
02:04:32,069 --> 02:04:29,679
very old school not what americans are

3352
02:04:33,589 --> 02:04:32,079
used to and i think

3353
02:04:35,510 --> 02:04:33,599
his passion

3354
02:04:38,310 --> 02:04:35,520
put people off here to a degree where in

3355
02:04:40,870 --> 02:04:38,320
europe he was very popular appropriately

3356
02:04:42,709 --> 02:04:40,880
he was a table pounder i mean he would

3357
02:04:44,069 --> 02:04:42,719
raise his voice and he would put his

3358
02:04:47,350 --> 02:04:44,079
hand down

3359
02:04:48,310 --> 02:04:47,360
on on the podium and

3360
02:04:51,270 --> 02:04:48,320
he

3361
02:04:53,109 --> 02:04:51,280
spoke english well but not great

3362
02:04:55,750 --> 02:04:53,119
and

3363
02:04:57,510 --> 02:04:55,760
where i got involved was

3364
02:04:58,470 --> 02:04:57,520
a year or two into my friendship with

3365
02:05:01,109 --> 02:04:58,480
him

3366
02:05:02,870 --> 02:05:01,119
he asked me if i would uh along with

3367
02:05:03,750 --> 02:05:02,880
antonio neus

3368
02:05:06,390 --> 02:05:03,760
work

3369
02:05:09,189 --> 02:05:06,400
on helping to edit for grammatical

3370
02:05:11,589 --> 02:05:09,199
purposes a paper that he had written

3371
02:05:12,550 --> 02:05:11,599
at the request of the then secretary

3372
02:05:13,750 --> 02:05:12,560
general

3373
02:05:15,750 --> 02:05:13,760
kurt voldton

3374
02:05:19,030 --> 02:05:15,760
who was interested in this subject and

3375
02:05:21,589 --> 02:05:19,040
what i mean by the subject was again

3376
02:05:24,629 --> 02:05:21,599
coleman was a strategic military thinker

3377
02:05:27,030 --> 02:05:24,639
and this has come up since and now with

3378
02:05:28,149 --> 02:05:27,040
much more out knowledge about ufos and

3379
02:05:30,709 --> 02:05:28,159
nukes

3380
02:05:33,270 --> 02:05:30,719
um coleman was almost prophetic

3381
02:05:34,709 --> 02:05:33,280
he's had a tremendous concern that at

3382
02:05:36,870 --> 02:05:34,719
some point

3383
02:05:40,069 --> 02:05:36,880
truly legitimate anomalous ufos would

3384
02:05:42,550 --> 02:05:40,079
come into american or soviet airspace

3385
02:05:43,990 --> 02:05:42,560
they would not acknowledge when

3386
02:05:45,750 --> 02:05:44,000
contacted

3387
02:05:47,830 --> 02:05:45,760
and that would be taken as a sign of

3388
02:05:49,510 --> 02:05:47,840
hostility and if they did not

3389
02:05:52,870 --> 02:05:49,520
acknowledge again

3390
02:05:53,750 --> 02:05:52,880
jets would be scrambled and um

3391
02:05:58,390 --> 02:05:53,760
it

3392
02:06:01,030 --> 02:05:58,400
deployed

3393
02:06:04,790 --> 02:06:01,040
it had the potential of igniting a

3394
02:06:06,069 --> 02:06:04,800
nuclear configuration very scary stuff

3395
02:06:07,830 --> 02:06:06,079
and that we needed some kind of

3396
02:06:10,310 --> 02:06:07,840
clearinghouse of information the united

3397
02:06:13,910 --> 02:06:10,320
nations was the most likely place

3398
02:06:16,310 --> 02:06:13,920
noble uh i was terribly flattered and

3399
02:06:18,550 --> 02:06:16,320
took it as you know and this is my first

3400
02:06:20,149 --> 02:06:18,560
real involvement beyond my own little

3401
02:06:23,910 --> 02:06:20,159
researches

3402
02:06:25,350 --> 02:06:23,920
and um i was very proud and went over

3403
02:06:26,950 --> 02:06:25,360
all the material he had given me as

3404
02:06:28,790 --> 02:06:26,960
antonio did

3405
02:06:30,790 --> 02:06:28,800
and the content

3406
02:06:34,310 --> 02:06:30,800
and the backing the grounding and

3407
02:06:37,270 --> 02:06:34,320
thinking was really first rate

3408
02:06:38,950 --> 02:06:37,280
the grammar was deplorable antonio and i

3409
02:06:41,669 --> 02:06:38,960
used to joke that coleman spoke and

3410
02:06:44,149 --> 02:06:41,679
wrote something we called culminates

3411
02:06:45,669 --> 02:06:44,159
you know forget about sentence structure

3412
02:06:47,830 --> 02:06:45,679
and prepositions

3413
02:06:49,350 --> 02:06:47,840
and

3414
02:06:51,750 --> 02:06:49,360
just

3415
02:06:54,390 --> 02:06:51,760
spins and flourishes

3416
02:06:56,310 --> 02:06:54,400
and you know i remember the hours that

3417
02:06:58,550 --> 02:06:56,320
we spent marking up these documents he

3418
02:06:59,910 --> 02:06:58,560
thanked us profusely and ignored them

3419
02:07:03,669 --> 02:06:59,920
all

3420
02:07:05,910 --> 02:07:03,679
and so it became an anomaly in terms of

3421
02:07:08,629 --> 02:07:05,920
the information's good but holy you

3422
02:07:11,350 --> 02:07:08,639
know is this serious how and i'll show

3423
02:07:12,950 --> 02:07:11,360
you um some of them um

3424
02:07:16,229 --> 02:07:12,960
also the same thing with the house of

3425
02:07:18,069 --> 02:07:16,239
lords debate in 1980 it was coleman who

3426
02:07:20,470 --> 02:07:18,079
had been asked by the

3427
02:07:22,550 --> 02:07:20,480
earl of clanchetty brinsley laporte

3428
02:07:24,470 --> 02:07:22,560
trench who was a passionate student of

3429
02:07:25,510 --> 02:07:24,480
the ufo subject wrote several good books

3430
02:07:27,750 --> 02:07:25,520
on it

3431
02:07:30,310 --> 02:07:27,760
to contribute a paper to the house of

3432
02:07:32,310 --> 02:07:30,320
lords debate

3433
02:07:33,990 --> 02:07:32,320
which i also helped to edit

3434
02:07:36,229 --> 02:07:34,000
unsuccessfully

3435
02:07:37,990 --> 02:07:36,239
but i have a credit in both of these

3436
02:07:41,750 --> 02:07:38,000
published papers and i'm very proud of

3437
02:07:44,069 --> 02:07:41,760
it for what it's worth anyway um

3438
02:07:46,229 --> 02:07:44,079
the event finally came around is going

3439
02:07:48,149 --> 02:07:46,239
to be three days of hearings

3440
02:07:50,390 --> 02:07:48,159
and although antonio and i weren't paid

3441
02:07:51,669 --> 02:07:50,400
for it which i didn't expect

3442
02:07:54,390 --> 02:07:51,679
um

3443
02:07:57,109 --> 02:07:54,400
we were invited to attend the hearings

3444
02:07:59,109 --> 02:07:57,119
and that was an extraordinary

3445
02:08:01,350 --> 02:07:59,119
experience for me

3446
02:08:03,109 --> 02:08:01,360
i remember the first day

3447
02:08:05,430 --> 02:08:03,119
first there had been terrible blizzard a

3448
02:08:07,270 --> 02:08:05,440
day or two before

3449
02:08:10,390 --> 02:08:07,280
which was directly responsible for a

3450
02:08:11,830 --> 02:08:10,400
flight from texas being canceled

3451
02:08:13,430 --> 02:08:11,840
which

3452
02:08:14,790 --> 02:08:13,440
precluded the bringing in of an

3453
02:08:15,990 --> 02:08:14,800
important witness who was going to

3454
02:08:17,990 --> 02:08:16,000
testify

3455
02:08:20,629 --> 02:08:18,000
a man named gordon cooper

3456
02:08:23,669 --> 02:08:20,639
a very outspoken astronaut who took it

3457
02:08:25,189 --> 02:08:23,679
seriously had sightings etc

3458
02:08:28,950 --> 02:08:25,199
um

3459
02:08:30,069 --> 02:08:28,960
but i remember you know i had one suit

3460
02:08:32,390 --> 02:08:30,079
look sharp

3461
02:08:34,790 --> 02:08:32,400
leave my loft in chinatown

3462
02:08:37,189 --> 02:08:34,800
take the subway uh or no i probably took

3463
02:08:39,109 --> 02:08:37,199
the number 15 bus was on first avenue

3464
02:08:41,270 --> 02:08:39,119
zing right up to the u.n

3465
02:08:43,430 --> 02:08:41,280
where i met my parents

3466
02:08:44,870 --> 02:08:43,440
both of them um worked

3467
02:08:47,030 --> 02:08:44,880
but

3468
02:08:50,310 --> 02:08:47,040
the snow had made it a problem for mom

3469
02:08:52,470 --> 02:08:50,320
to get out to garden city to her job and

3470
02:08:54,229 --> 02:08:52,480
dad simply closed the office for the day

3471
02:08:55,910 --> 02:08:54,239
and they met me there they were curious

3472
02:08:57,589 --> 02:08:55,920
and the whole idea that i was involved

3473
02:09:00,790 --> 02:08:57,599
in something like this

3474
02:09:02,149 --> 02:09:00,800
and we sat in the gallery and we watched

3475
02:09:04,629 --> 02:09:02,159
and

3476
02:09:05,910 --> 02:09:04,639
one of the ironies there is that we may

3477
02:09:08,629 --> 02:09:05,920
have been sitting right next to lee

3478
02:09:10,629 --> 02:09:08,639
spiegel's parents

3479
02:09:12,550 --> 02:09:10,639
lee and i we might have passed in the

3480
02:09:14,390 --> 02:09:12,560
hallway but it was another 10 years

3481
02:09:16,790 --> 02:09:14,400
before we actually met

3482
02:09:19,270 --> 02:09:16,800
when he was a syndicated

3483
02:09:21,430 --> 02:09:19,280
radio show host on nbc out of new york

3484
02:09:22,149 --> 02:09:21,440
with a huge audience and i was a guest

3485
02:09:23,750 --> 02:09:22,159
and

3486
02:09:26,229 --> 02:09:23,760
at a certain point we put this together

3487
02:09:27,830 --> 02:09:26,239
and it was like so ironic to both of us

3488
02:09:29,750 --> 02:09:27,840
um

3489
02:09:32,229 --> 02:09:29,760
and there on the floor of the united

3490
02:09:33,910 --> 02:09:32,239
nations they debated the subject the

3491
02:09:36,069 --> 02:09:33,920
first thing i noticed was how many empty

3492
02:09:37,910 --> 02:09:36,079
seats there were in the delegate section

3493
02:09:39,510 --> 02:09:37,920
i'm sure a lot of them was gee it's you

3494
02:09:42,069 --> 02:09:39,520
know really snowy i can't get out of my

3495
02:09:45,189 --> 02:09:42,079
apartment yeah right

3496
02:09:47,109 --> 02:09:45,199
other ones just didn't want to be there

3497
02:09:48,550 --> 02:09:47,119
but those who were there

3498
02:09:50,950 --> 02:09:48,560
you know were all pretty grim-faced

3499
02:09:52,870 --> 02:09:50,960
nobody wanted to be there this was not

3500
02:09:54,550 --> 02:09:52,880
something anybody wanted to do except

3501
02:09:55,589 --> 02:09:54,560
for sir eric

3502
02:09:58,149 --> 02:09:55,599
and

3503
02:09:59,109 --> 02:09:58,159
right there sitting on the floor

3504
02:10:01,830 --> 02:09:59,119
was

3505
02:10:03,990 --> 02:10:01,840
stan t friedman

3506
02:10:06,470 --> 02:10:04,000
dr j allen heineck

3507
02:10:09,430 --> 02:10:06,480
dr jacques valet

3508
02:10:11,750 --> 02:10:09,440
lieutenant colonel lawrence coyne

3509
02:10:15,109 --> 02:10:11,760
who had been involved

3510
02:10:17,350 --> 02:10:15,119
not that long before in a very important

3511
02:10:20,629 --> 02:10:17,360
ufo incident

3512
02:10:23,030 --> 02:10:20,639
in a helicopter i believe over ohio

3513
02:10:25,910 --> 02:10:23,040
where they encountered a

3514
02:10:27,270 --> 02:10:25,920
fully articulated ufo

3515
02:10:28,629 --> 02:10:27,280
that

3516
02:10:30,709 --> 02:10:28,639
literally

3517
02:10:33,910 --> 02:10:30,719
by whatever technology as they were

3518
02:10:37,510 --> 02:10:33,920
trying to dive and get away from it it

3519
02:10:40,709 --> 02:10:37,520
pulled them up 1500 feet

3520
02:10:42,069 --> 02:10:40,719
everybody uh on it and made statements

3521
02:10:44,470 --> 02:10:42,079
there was no way to keep the story

3522
02:10:45,990 --> 02:10:44,480
secret and coin was a very impressive

3523
02:10:48,069 --> 02:10:46,000
military witness

3524
02:10:50,950 --> 02:10:48,079
although gordon cooper was not there his

3525
02:10:52,229 --> 02:10:50,960
statement which is a powerhouse was read

3526
02:10:55,189 --> 02:10:52,239
into the record

3527
02:10:57,189 --> 02:10:55,199
but that was the first time i had

3528
02:10:58,629 --> 02:10:57,199
encountered any of these individuals as

3529
02:10:59,669 --> 02:10:58,639
real people

3530
02:11:01,270 --> 02:10:59,679
and

3531
02:11:02,790 --> 02:11:01,280
it was amazing

3532
02:11:04,629 --> 02:11:02,800
ultimately

3533
02:11:07,669 --> 02:11:04,639
the united nations

3534
02:11:10,229 --> 02:11:07,679
delegates oh at one point if you do the

3535
02:11:12,310 --> 02:11:10,239
timeline i'm not sure how long but very

3536
02:11:13,510 --> 02:11:12,320
shortly before this maybe six weeks or

3537
02:11:17,189 --> 02:11:13,520
so

3538
02:11:19,669 --> 02:11:17,199
a 21 year old australian private pilot

3539
02:11:21,990 --> 02:11:19,679
uh named valentich

3540
02:11:23,990 --> 02:11:22,000
frederick valentich

3541
02:11:26,390 --> 02:11:24,000
whose father was also a private pilot

3542
02:11:29,109 --> 02:11:26,400
was flying off the coast of australia

3543
02:11:30,550 --> 02:11:29,119
and started to radio in encountering a

3544
02:11:32,870 --> 02:11:30,560
ufo

3545
02:11:34,550 --> 02:11:32,880
and he started to panic uh in the

3546
02:11:37,350 --> 02:11:34,560
communications

3547
02:11:39,430 --> 02:11:37,360
and um

3548
02:11:41,270 --> 02:11:39,440
it's not a plane it's a

3549
02:11:42,470 --> 02:11:41,280
and it's tremendous

3550
02:11:44,950 --> 02:11:42,480
and

3551
02:11:47,030 --> 02:11:44,960
at a certain point we have the recording

3552
02:11:49,430 --> 02:11:47,040
of course there is a sound of a number

3553
02:11:52,149 --> 02:11:49,440
of seconds of metal on metal and then he

3554
02:11:52,950 --> 02:11:52,159
goes off radar

3555
02:11:55,270 --> 02:11:52,960
well

3556
02:11:56,950 --> 02:11:55,280
he disappeared without a trace

3557
02:11:57,830 --> 02:11:56,960
never heard from again

3558
02:11:59,990 --> 02:11:57,840
uh

3559
02:12:01,669 --> 02:12:00,000
immediately the skeptical community said

3560
02:12:03,430 --> 02:12:01,679
well he crashed and you know there was

3561
02:12:07,030 --> 02:12:03,440
no oil slick and nobody noticed they

3562
02:12:08,069 --> 02:12:07,040
didn't find the body or the craft

3563
02:12:10,629 --> 02:12:08,079
but

3564
02:12:13,990 --> 02:12:10,639
one of our presenters

3565
02:12:15,910 --> 02:12:14,000
i do not remember whether it was stan or

3566
02:12:17,750 --> 02:12:15,920
dr heineck or valet

3567
02:12:19,750 --> 02:12:17,760
they basically turned to the australian

3568
02:12:22,470 --> 02:12:19,760
ambassador who was there

3569
02:12:24,709 --> 02:12:22,480
and said in so many words mr ambassador

3570
02:12:26,950 --> 02:12:24,719
a citizen of your country has been

3571
02:12:29,669 --> 02:12:26,960
kidnapped possibly killed

3572
02:12:32,390 --> 02:12:29,679
rights violated and how can your

3573
02:12:35,270 --> 02:12:32,400
government just sit by and not come

3574
02:12:36,870 --> 02:12:35,280
i remember the look on that man's face

3575
02:12:40,310 --> 02:12:36,880
it was

3576
02:12:42,629 --> 02:12:40,320
how dare you single me out and humiliate

3577
02:12:44,310 --> 02:12:42,639
me in this manner over such as

3578
02:12:46,709 --> 02:12:44,320
flying saucers

3579
02:12:48,790 --> 02:12:46,719
um the vote was taken

3580
02:12:51,669 --> 02:12:48,800
and they passed the resolution

3581
02:12:52,790 --> 02:12:51,679
and then allowed it to die quietly in

3582
02:12:55,910 --> 02:12:52,800
committee

3583
02:12:58,390 --> 02:12:55,920
and end of story

3584
02:13:00,709 --> 02:12:58,400
i think back on the opportunity there

3585
02:13:03,510 --> 02:13:00,719
that had it happened

3586
02:13:06,229 --> 02:13:03,520
again it wasn't this giant advance but

3587
02:13:09,270 --> 02:13:06,239
the idea of a permanent committee in the

3588
02:13:11,189 --> 02:13:09,280
united nations set up to study

3589
02:13:13,589 --> 02:13:11,199
ufo phenomena with countries sharing the

3590
02:13:16,310 --> 02:13:13,599
knowledges they had building a database

3591
02:13:17,510 --> 02:13:16,320
networking which would have ultimately

3592
02:13:19,270 --> 02:13:17,520
probably

3593
02:13:20,870 --> 02:13:19,280
resulted in some kind of public

3594
02:13:23,430 --> 02:13:20,880
statements

3595
02:13:25,510 --> 02:13:23,440
maybe wouldn't be where we are now maybe

3596
02:13:27,350 --> 02:13:25,520
at a more advanced place had that been

3597
02:13:29,270 --> 02:13:27,360
allowed to happen

3598
02:13:31,750 --> 02:13:29,280
and um

3599
02:13:33,430 --> 02:13:31,760
remember going back home that night and

3600
02:13:35,589 --> 02:13:33,440
being really disappointed to not seeing

3601
02:13:38,550 --> 02:13:35,599
any television coverage on it

3602
02:13:40,629 --> 02:13:38,560
and then that period of waiting

3603
02:13:42,149 --> 02:13:40,639
of the possibility that it was going to

3604
02:13:43,510 --> 02:13:42,159
happen and then finding out through

3605
02:13:45,510 --> 02:13:43,520
channels

3606
02:13:47,430 --> 02:13:45,520
that it had again

3607
02:13:51,430 --> 02:13:47,440
been allowed to die in committee

3608
02:13:53,750 --> 02:13:51,440
meanwhile the long arm of those

3609
02:13:55,990 --> 02:13:53,760
who really wish this hadn't happened and

3610
02:13:59,109 --> 02:13:56,000
wanted to get back at somebody

3611
02:14:01,109 --> 02:13:59,119
on his next trip to new york city for

3612
02:14:02,950 --> 02:14:01,119
diplomatic purposes

3613
02:14:04,870 --> 02:14:02,960
um uh

3614
02:14:06,550 --> 02:14:04,880
prime minister gary's government was

3615
02:14:09,990 --> 02:14:06,560
overthrown

3616
02:14:13,350 --> 02:14:10,000
and a communist government was installed

3617
02:14:16,310 --> 02:14:13,360
and that gave president reagan an excuse

3618
02:14:18,229 --> 02:14:16,320
to i think create an action i

3619
02:14:20,229 --> 02:14:18,239
have to re-look that up

3620
02:14:22,229 --> 02:14:20,239
but i

3621
02:14:24,709 --> 02:14:22,239
i'm trying to remember

3622
02:14:26,390 --> 02:14:24,719
the disposition of gary after that

3623
02:14:28,870 --> 02:14:26,400
whether he became

3624
02:14:31,030 --> 02:14:28,880
kind of refugee it was allowed to return

3625
02:14:32,310 --> 02:14:31,040
but i do remember that there was news

3626
02:14:34,390 --> 02:14:32,320
items that

3627
02:14:36,069 --> 02:14:34,400
in going into uh you know the prime

3628
02:14:38,550 --> 02:14:36,079
minister's residence

3629
02:14:40,550 --> 02:14:38,560
finding

3630
02:14:41,510 --> 02:14:40,560
objects and things associated with

3631
02:14:44,229 --> 02:14:41,520
voodoo

3632
02:14:47,109 --> 02:14:44,239
and you know books on the occult

3633
02:14:48,149 --> 02:14:47,119
and obviously this guy was you know a

3634
02:14:49,109 --> 02:14:48,159
wacko

3635
02:14:52,229 --> 02:14:49,119
and

3636
02:14:54,709 --> 02:14:52,239
able to hurt his reputation

3637
02:14:57,830 --> 02:14:54,719
after the fact

3638
02:15:00,629 --> 02:14:57,840
you know is a is it was not just mean

3639
02:15:02,550 --> 02:15:00,639
it was effective and kind of a warning

3640
02:15:04,390 --> 02:15:02,560
to you know this guy's a nobody in the

3641
02:15:06,310 --> 02:15:04,400
world of world leaders

3642
02:15:08,629 --> 02:15:06,320
but he rattled the cage and he got some

3643
02:15:09,669 --> 02:15:08,639
results that embarrassed the forces that

3644
02:15:11,830 --> 02:15:09,679
be

3645
02:15:13,990 --> 02:15:11,840
so let's seek it to them

3646
02:15:14,950 --> 02:15:14,000
and they did and they did

3647
02:15:16,709 --> 02:15:14,960
wow

3648
02:15:18,149 --> 02:15:16,719
that is fascinating

3649
02:15:20,069 --> 02:15:18,159
peter wrapping things up where can we

3650
02:15:21,350 --> 02:15:20,079
find everything you're up to

3651
02:15:22,870 --> 02:15:21,360
i am

3652
02:15:25,990 --> 02:15:22,880
embarrassingly

3653
02:15:27,430 --> 02:15:26,000
one of the least online

3654
02:15:30,149 --> 02:15:27,440
individuals

3655
02:15:32,149 --> 02:15:30,159
with my level experience it has to do i

3656
02:15:33,189 --> 02:15:32,159
think partly

3657
02:15:35,189 --> 02:15:33,199
with

3658
02:15:36,870 --> 02:15:35,199
being a technophobe

3659
02:15:39,030 --> 02:15:36,880
being dyslexic

3660
02:15:40,550 --> 02:15:39,040
having so many knowledgeable friends who

3661
02:15:42,470 --> 02:15:40,560
are standing there waiting to help me

3662
02:15:45,830 --> 02:15:42,480
developing a presence

3663
02:15:47,910 --> 02:15:45,840
on youtube on patreon um helping me try

3664
02:15:50,950 --> 02:15:47,920
to find a way to monetize my weekly

3665
02:15:52,950 --> 02:15:50,960
radio show and i keep not doing it

3666
02:15:54,709 --> 02:15:52,960
i'm hoping this year

3667
02:15:57,109 --> 02:15:54,719
i will push myself over the edge with

3668
02:15:59,990 --> 02:15:57,119
the help of a number of people

3669
02:16:02,390 --> 02:16:00,000
and make that happen in the meantime

3670
02:16:04,629 --> 02:16:02,400
the website that i have is so woefully

3671
02:16:05,589 --> 02:16:04,639
out of date that i won't even direct it

3672
02:16:07,030 --> 02:16:05,599
to you

3673
02:16:10,069 --> 02:16:07,040
but i will say

3674
02:16:10,950 --> 02:16:10,079
you can find me regularly weekly

3675
02:16:12,069 --> 02:16:10,960
um

3676
02:16:14,629 --> 02:16:12,079
live

3677
02:16:17,350 --> 02:16:14,639
on mondays seven o'clock to nine o'clock

3678
02:16:21,030 --> 02:16:17,360
in the evening eastern standard time

3679
02:16:22,149 --> 02:16:21,040
hosting my radio program meanwhile here

3680
02:16:24,069 --> 02:16:22,159
on earth

3681
02:16:28,790 --> 02:16:24,079
on kgra

3682
02:16:30,069 --> 02:16:28,800
digital broadcasting kgradb.com

3683
02:16:31,990 --> 02:16:30,079
um

3684
02:16:35,270 --> 02:16:32,000
once the show is over the show is

3685
02:16:36,230 --> 02:16:35,280
archived you can access it for three

3686
02:16:38,950 --> 02:16:36,240
months

3687
02:16:40,309 --> 02:16:38,960
at no cost

3688
02:16:43,990 --> 02:16:40,319
the audio

3689
02:16:47,669 --> 02:16:44,000
goes to spreaker.com at no cost

3690
02:16:49,030 --> 02:16:47,679
if you subscribe to kgra either monthly

3691
02:16:51,589 --> 02:16:49,040
or yearly

3692
02:16:53,669 --> 02:16:51,599
and you use my first name as your

3693
02:16:55,509 --> 02:16:53,679
subscription code

3694
02:16:56,389 --> 02:16:55,519
you get um

3695
02:16:57,349 --> 02:16:56,399
30

3696
02:16:59,110 --> 02:16:57,359
off

3697
02:17:01,990 --> 02:16:59,120
which makes it come to about five

3698
02:17:05,750 --> 02:17:02,000
dollars a month or 50 bucks a year

3699
02:17:07,990 --> 02:17:05,760
and that also entitles you to access

3700
02:17:09,990 --> 02:17:08,000
the hundreds and hundreds and maybe

3701
02:17:11,429 --> 02:17:10,000
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds

3702
02:17:15,190 --> 02:17:11,439
of other

3703
02:17:17,349 --> 02:17:15,200
great shows by other hosts in the ktra

3704
02:17:18,309 --> 02:17:17,359
going back to its inception not a bad

3705
02:17:19,349 --> 02:17:18,319
deal

3706
02:17:20,790 --> 02:17:19,359
um

3707
02:17:23,429 --> 02:17:20,800
also

3708
02:17:25,429 --> 02:17:23,439
i am in the world of social networking i

3709
02:17:27,030 --> 02:17:25,439
am on twitter at

3710
02:17:28,469 --> 02:17:27,040
peter robbins

3711
02:17:30,870 --> 02:17:28,479
ufo

3712
02:17:32,070 --> 02:17:30,880
the other thing is i'm fairly regular on

3713
02:17:33,669 --> 02:17:32,080
facebook

3714
02:17:36,150 --> 02:17:33,679
and

3715
02:17:37,309 --> 02:17:36,160
my facebook address

3716
02:17:40,790 --> 02:17:37,319
is

3717
02:17:41,830 --> 02:17:40,800
facebook.com slash peter robbins and why

3718
02:17:44,230 --> 02:17:41,840
slash

3719
02:17:47,030 --> 02:17:44,240
it's actually that simple rather than

3720
02:17:49,349 --> 02:17:47,040
some esoteric code there

3721
02:17:51,750 --> 02:17:49,359
where i post whatever i'm doing and

3722
02:17:53,830 --> 02:17:51,760
immediately following each broadcaster

3723
02:17:55,509 --> 02:17:53,840
no later than the next day

3724
02:17:57,110 --> 02:17:55,519
there is a link to the show that i've

3725
02:17:59,110 --> 02:17:57,120
just done

3726
02:18:02,469 --> 02:17:59,120
so you can reach me

3727
02:18:03,910 --> 02:18:02,479
through twitter through facebook and my

3728
02:18:06,389 --> 02:18:03,920
email address

3729
02:18:07,589 --> 02:18:06,399
is my first initial and last name in

3730
02:18:08,230 --> 02:18:07,599
home state

3731
02:18:17,190 --> 02:18:08,240
p

3732
02:18:20,950 --> 02:18:17,200
later this year i can actually say

3733
02:18:22,870 --> 02:18:20,960
go here yes it's on the horizon finally

3734
02:18:25,030 --> 02:18:22,880
conferences are happening again peter

3735
02:18:26,070 --> 02:18:25,040
this is absolutely fascinating thank you

3736
02:18:27,990 --> 02:18:26,080
for

3737
02:18:29,589 --> 02:18:28,000
sharing all of your stories with me but

3738
02:18:30,950 --> 02:18:29,599
more importantly thank you for allowing

3739
02:18:33,270 --> 02:18:30,960
me into your home

3740
02:18:35,429 --> 02:18:33,280
it's been an incredible experience that

3741
02:18:48,410 --> 02:18:35,439
i'll never forget and

3742
02:19:01,530 --> 02:18:59,610
[Music]

3743
02:19:22,469 --> 02:19:01,540
[Applause]

3744
02:19:26,469 --> 02:19:24,389
somewhere in the skies is produced by

3745
02:19:28,389 --> 02:19:26,479
third kind productions in association